Self-Employed HMRC update

[Snorkelface]

HMRC has added a few updates for the self employed grant scheme.

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

While HMRC will be contacting eligible claimants directly over the next couple of weeks with more specific details you can now see if you're eligible to claim and what date you'll be able to lodge your claim by using their on-line tool (about half way down their web page).

You'll need your UTR and NI number to do this and it will also give you the opportunity to set up your Gateway account if you don't already have one and to update your contact details. It's a good idea to set this up now as the website is likely to get very busy when it goes live on 13th May.

You can find both your UTR and NI number on your tax return. If you're setting up your Gateway at the same time you'll need to provide email/mobile details and you'll need to set up additional security measures to identify you using either security questions or drivers license details or your passport. The system can time out so it's a good idea to have all the details to hand.

No they haven't be affected as still been working as normal and paid normal wages, tradesman paid a daily rate by someone, but I get what you mean about others being
Impacted with the amount of work etc.

LoseLoose
Any self employed person who meets the criteria can claim.
Young Mr Sunak will get at least 29% and possibly 49% of it back in tax so for the sake of keeping people off UC its a small price to pay.

Hi everyone.

My 'window' closes in a couple of days and I have dithering over whether to apply or not.

Like many PPs, my invoicing has been more or less normal until May, when orders have started to reduce.

I am worried that if I don't claim I will miss the boat and then be in financial trouble later on in the year (especially as an extension for the SE is not guaranteed). And also worry that if I do claim and things pick up, I will be done for fraud.

My initial thought was to claim, and keep the grant unspent if I am lucky enough not to need it. Then return it with the 2021 tax payments. Is that not an option?

Stickygotstuck - HMRC have given people the earliest date they can claim, spread out between 13-18 May, but there isn't a closing date. This got mentioned on the Martin Lewis Show on 14th May when Martin Lewis interviewed Jim Harra from HMRC. The episode is still on ITV player - the question gets asked at 09:15.

www.itv.com/hub/the-martin-lewis-money-show-live/7a0222a0008

If your orders are reducing as a result of Coronavirus then you have been adversely affected and you can't predict whether things will pick up or not. But you don't have to claim if you don't want to. There's no option to return the grant as far as I know but it is subject to tax and NI as normal so a proportion of it will be returned anyway.

sticky
How could you be done for fraud
if your business has been affected (eg by your customers being locked down) your are eligible

I have multiple clients who are currently quids in but have claimed because they suspect THEIR clients will start to collect P45s soon .....
so turnover will drop when the scheme has closed ....

hi everyone, I had a quiet march and april, and a big client cancelled on me that usually pays me £500p/m plus other projects pulled. However I had one big preplanned job on in May, that is a big job that is one of my biggest of the year. The pay from this usually keeps me going for a while. So I have lost out on the regular £500p/m client duing this time and doubt they will restart at all for another few months (I guess I could lose 3k+). But because of the big May job for a different client I am worried it will look as though I earned more over the three months. But the fact is this job was planned some months ago, had to be delayed due to coronavirus, and my regular client cancelled so I am losing out on my regular work on top of this job so I have been adversely affected overall. Do you think this could cause issues for me?

mallow
just claim

listening thank you - are you an accountant? it sounds as if you may be from your posts. I do have evidence of clients pulling work etc.

Mallow
I qualified as an ACCA in the 90's and have run my own tax practice since
I've been involved with tax policy ever since

Listening - Thank you amazing - great to get some advice from someone in the know. So do you think I have grounds to claim even if I have what looks like a great month in May? I have plenty of evidence of how I have been affected eg emails from clients etc. I guess I am most worried about being tripped up in future because of the big job. I think the fact they are so wooly about the application criteria means it is quite easy to apply and open to much variability rather than needing everything set in stone and clarity on everything as to how it might affect your business... Thanks so much!

Thank you Snorkel and Listening.
The fact that your clients are applying because they fear what's coming, despite having done well right now, makes me a bit less anxious.

The reason I worry about the fraud issue is because I know of at least one colleague who asked pretty much that question at an HMRC online seminar and was told that he'd risk being prosecuted.

mallow, your case sounds very similar to mine down to the unexpected large project. I'm not expecting any others like it for a long, long time, if ever. Now things have gone very quiet.

sticky it's really frustrating and confusing isn't it. I might try to pay a tax advisor to ask their opinion.

And it's now Day 5 of putting in your claim for the self-employed grant.

Good luck anyone who hasn't been able to claim until today. Also people have definitely started to see the money arrive in their bank accounts so HMRC are hitting their target to actually get the grant out to people.

Please keep posting any info or questions here, it's all really useful.

Mallow
The key point is that you are asked IF your business has been affected not HOW
So if its been affected in any way then you can claim.

FFS companies with billions of pounds in the bank are claiming furlough payments
feel no guilt

and if your mate got tripped up, they need a better accountant

magicmallow

'I am worried it will look as though I earned more over the three months' - this is not relevant. More than what?

'my regular client cancelled so I am losing out on my regular work' - this is what matters. This is being adversely affected.

'I have plenty of evidence of how I have been affected eg emails from clients etc.' - And you have proof of this for your records.

I might try to pay a tax advisor to ask their opinion.

I'm pretty sure they would tell you to claim it.

I think @ListeningQuietly has hit upon a key thing too: it's your business that needs to have been affected, not you personally. Look at some of the big firms who have happily handed out big dividends or who are owned by billionaires but are now claiming government assistance. They are looking at it with the eye of a business, not whether they can personally afford to bankroll it, and we should do. Self-employed people are business owners.

I've said it several times on this thread and I will say it again. I will eat my hat if anyone claiming this in good faith (and by that I mean claiming it because they are worried about the current or future state of their business) ever faces any repercussions. At most, and even this is unlikely, I think, you will have to repay the money. You will not be done for fraud. Claiming it isn't fraud anyway – the fraud message on their website is for people who actually are carrying out fraud, such as lying about their income to inflate their grant, which it was possible to do if you took advantage of the very late extension to file your tax return.

HMRC will have a massive amount of work over the next few years, and I imagine the vast majority of their focus will be on the furlough scheme. I don't think they're going to devote much manpower to investigating Mrs Smith who said she had been adversely affected and got £3000 but ended up earning the same as the year before. In fact the very set-up of the scheme acknowledges that people have good years and bad years, and sometimes you don't know you're going to have a good year until quite late on. So take the money, and if you don't need to use it, put it in savings.

PS. Even HMRC themselves don't say anything about being prosecuted in their guidance. They say that in cases of fraud or someone not being eligible according to the guidance they may recover the money, but that will most likely just be asking for it back, not spending taxpayers' money on prosecuting people for small amounts of money when things are already going to be manic for them.

ScarfLadysBag
Hear Hear.
HMRC very very rarely prosecute
you've got to be really taking the piss for them to go down that route.

If you claim the max amount
and your business booms
you'll pay 49% of it back in tax next year
simple

Thank you for your input, Scarf and Listening.

Your statement
FFS companies with billions of pounds in the bank are claiming furlough payments
feel no guilt
has convinced me to claim. You're so right!

I might do it now, when hopefully it won't be as busy and before I have time to change my mind!

If I could just pop in with a word of caution, we are in unusual times where HMRC is, for all intense and purposes, giving money away and if you have worked in accountancy and know HMRC it’s the little people they will come after first if they suspect anything as it’s a hell of a lot easier and less work for them. As you were.

Stormzyna, that's what the other voice in my head has been doing telling me.

Day 6 for those making claims for the self-employed grant from HMRC. Good luck anyone putting in their claim today.

HMRC notified people by letter and email about the opportunity to claim. Not everyone received their letters but you can just follow the link at the top of this page if you want to check eligibility and then make a claim for the grant if you qualify.

HMRC's online eligibility tool has been giving those who qualify a time and date between 13-18 May to then put in a claim for the grant. This date is just the earliest a claim can be made, not the only time a claim can be made. It was designed to prevent the system from overloading when it launched.

HMRC have not given a closing date for claiming the grant as yet and you will still be able to claim after today.

My payment is in my bank account this morning-
A very efficient service from HMRC- who don't usually get any praise , but deserve it in this instance for a smooth fast service- Great stuff

Good to hear pobparker!