Self-Employed HMRC update

[Snorkelface]

HMRC has added a few updates for the self employed grant scheme.

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

While HMRC will be contacting eligible claimants directly over the next couple of weeks with more specific details you can now see if you're eligible to claim and what date you'll be able to lodge your claim by using their on-line tool (about half way down their web page).

You'll need your UTR and NI number to do this and it will also give you the opportunity to set up your Gateway account if you don't already have one and to update your contact details. It's a good idea to set this up now as the website is likely to get very busy when it goes live on 13th May.

You can find both your UTR and NI number on your tax return. If you're setting up your Gateway at the same time you'll need to provide email/mobile details and you'll need to set up additional security measures to identify you using either security questions or drivers license details or your passport. The system can time out so it's a good idea to have all the details to hand.

I applied on Thursday, the amount was only pennies off my own calculation of what I would get, money is in my account this morning. Am somewhat stunned at the efficiency of it.

I managed to claim my grant this morning. ☺️

Really annoyed partner has been out of work so has been entitled to this grant. He's has friends that have worked through the whole time not been impacted and they have also applied for the grant and been accepted?!

Surely will this not bite them in the butt later on?? And people wonder why self employed get a bad name sometimes when there's people like that!

Jolly, the criteria is being affected not out of work. People can still claim whilst carrying on working.

We are working still and have claimed. Work hasn't died off completely no but it has been affected, some jobs have been cancelled/put on hold, some works have been completed but the invoices haven't been paid on time, some days I've been having to look after children instead of working etc etc.

We aren't out of work, we are doing 'okay' but I've no idea how long this will go on or how affected I'll be this time next month so yes I've claimed and taken it.

My partner's friend rang last night jollybobs89, adamant that the grant was for all self employed people, even those who have been still working.

But... it is for people who are still working

It is for those who have still been working. You can still be working and be affected by Coronavirus, from earning less, being able to take on less work due to childcare, etc. They actively want self-employed people to be continuing to work wherever possible.

No where does the criteria say you can't be working. It says you've been 'adversely affected by Coronavirus'.

That does not have to mean that you've got absolutely no work at all and can't go in.

Sorry ToodleTweedle, I wasn't clear, if anything his friend has seen his business increase, he hasn't been impacted at all. I don't believe the grant is for those people.

You can still be working and still be affected by Coronavirus - the chances are that work will be quieter and therefore you would qualify. You are shown the criteria when you make your application for this grant, so just be honest.

There probably will be those that have claimed whilst not being affected, but I would think that they will get caught by the fact that their figures on their self assessment won't be much different to previous years and therefore will be picked for checks.

Personally I prefer to sleep well at night and so am truthful in anything I do!

@WitchDancer Will their profits show less though? My self employed hairdresser friend will be working morning, noon and night once she's permitted to. It's going to be really hard for hmrc to disprove that she was eligible based on profit figures.

yes I'm a bit worried about that too, that if my profits increase later in the year, it won't show that I was affected, especially as my business was increasing generally this year, so I had already expected to make more.

And then last year's will look slightly lower, as the March figures will be down, and the whole grant included on next year's income will make this year look bigger.

So just looking at profits will be hard to tell, because it depends on what I expected to happen this year, not just what happened last year. I guess I have evidence of missing work, though, but it's just emails etc.

Anyone who is worrying about timing of income versus the grant, profits etc. Firstly most people will be in the same boat here with their accounts not being 'normal'. Also not everyone gets paid on the day for work. I get paid months later for work so my income doesn't reflect what work I did and when.

I would suggest if you're really worried about this that you keep a work diary (back dated as best you can) - I know it sounds really basic and pointless but it's not. For personal care workers this is pretty simple as it's easy enough to show appointments or lack thereof and cancelations, anyone else keep a diary of work enquiries/quotes and actual paid work done. Just the amount of hours you've spent will work for some people. Any significant activity or deafening silence note it down. For many people this will be evidence of a downturn or erratic work load. And a diary is an acceptable record of activity. There's no actual amount of hours or income you need to have lost to qualify for the grant. And there's no rule saying you can't have a wobble right now and then a splendid end to 2020 either.

Great advice Snorkel, I agree. I don't know many businesses that don't keep some sort of appointments diary or record of when sales were made. CIS workers have their summary from whoever they have been working for too. It's not many that wouldn't have something as evidence, assuming the claim was genuine of course!

Yes I have evidence of work; it's harder to prove evidence of absence! But I have some evidence of cancelled work, and I can explain if needed about what work I might have expected to come in that didn't. I'm probably worrying unnecessarily though.

Also this grant has been allocated to March/April/May. We're only half way through May and we're receiving the grant already. Don't over think it.

Surely the loan has to be classed on your tax return as earnings or money coming into the business? As such, depending, what you earn, you will pay tax on it.

Am I being really thick because I don't understand why people are worried about getting it or complaining that some people are getting it whose work has not been affected at all.

Well yes you pay tax on it but it's still income, just as it would be if you did a job and got paid for that. You aren't paying the full amount back in tax, so if your income is unchanged and you claim it you'll make a profit from it, despite paying tax on it.

It's going to be very hard if they don't extend this scheme - I don't expect business to pick up for me until about 3 months AFTER normal life resumes

I really wouldn't worry about it all. First of all, they are not going to have the resilience to check everyone's circumstances on top of all the other stuff they have with the furlough scheme, etc. Even if you end up trading normally or even slightly more than usual, they aren't going to waste their time and energy over it. If you claim in good faith, you are fine.

In the very unlikely event you do get investigated in the future, they haven't given any objective criteria for adversely affected so no one claiming in good faith is going to get done for fraud. Fraud is talking about people who have fiddled their books, probably those who took advantage of the extension to April for their tax return and then inflated their profits to boost their grant amount or have fudged their income when they actually earned more via PAYE so they're eligible, etc.

@ScarfLadysBag oh yes of course. So it was me being thick! I blame it on having a migraine yesterday as it takes me a few days to get over one.

I guess it would have been far too difficult to try and give it only to those who genuinely needed it. I think I would be surprised if the scheme is extended because it's too difficult to make it fair.

I will just be happy when we find out whether DH is eligible or not as he has barely done any work since mid March

Well hopefully the grant will go straight back into the economy. That’s what I’ve done with it, contributed to keeping another small business a float

Lynsey91 - firstly it's a grant not a loan, before anyone panics! A grant doesn't have to be repaid (a loan does). And yes, it will be treated as income and subject to tax and NI on the 20/21 tac return.

Some people are worried about claiming it because HMRC has reminded people on the claim that they need to have been adversely affected by coronavirus to qualify and should keep evidence of this. Which for some people is easy to prove, others more difficult, should they ever have to (unlikely but still possible) and an enquiry from HMRC is not something anyone wants to deal with at the best of times. If people have been working as normal I think it's being seen as a freebie from the government by some people and that those people shouldn't claim the grant, which they don't have to of course. But there's a lot of variables to do with being self employed that aren't being considered there.

I applied today and was surprised how quick and easy it was. It said that if approved the money will be in my bank in 6 days.

Does anyone know whether there will be an opportunity to claim again, now the furlough has been extended. The grant will keep me going for a couple of months but nothing beyond that. Because of the wait too I have already gone overdrawn so that will have to be paid off first.

Martin Lewis said a day or so ago he believed it was 50/50 whether it would be or not, so we will just have to wait and see.