University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

I’m not blaming parents for not stopping students. I’ve never said that. Believe me, I have a 19yo and I’m very aware of how they know everything and won’t listen to advice.

Trolls gonna troll

Titchy this is what you said

But we don't live in an ideal world and have to deal with student MH in the same way A and E staff have to deal with paralytically drunk people every Friday night. In an ideal world people wouldn't get so drunk they put their life at risk, but we don't live in an ideal world, so that's the reality of working in A and E. But don't let that stop you berating nurses.

You have to deal with student MH in the same way A and E staff have to deal paralytically drunk people on a Friday night - that doesn't sound like you're saying we feel helpless to deal with situations we aren't trained to deal with. It sounds like you are saying these students are causing a problem ( and it's an interesting comparison isn't it? Seeing as drunk people in a and E are usually aggressive, combative and cause disruption. Though I'm sure you arent suggesting that about students with MH conditions, right?)

You also go on to say In an ideal world people wouldn't get so drunk they put their life at risk,

How does that relate to students at uni then?

As for saying no one is blaming parents - well, clearly posters on here are, otherwise why keep bringing them up? It isn't up to parents whether students go to uni or not. As you keep saying they are adults. Therefore, it's a decision taken by adults and is a decision between university and the student. It literally has nothing to do with parents so why do we keep being brought up?

JacobReesMogadishu

Then why a the comments about parents needing to parent, parents should discuss this with their children, it's not lecturers jobs to support mh but the parents and so on?

It literally has nothing to do with parents so why do we keep being brought up?

Well, you're kind of.... bringing it up?

Yes, in response to academic staff blaming parents for allowing students with MH conditions, or who might struggle to cope, to go to university.

No one does keep bringing parents into it except you? One or two have said that a parental role doesn't stop on their 18th birthday - supportive parents continue to be there their child's whole life. And as supportive parents if our adult child is intent on a course of action we don't think they are yet able to deal with, then of course we should offer advice to that effect and guidance. Hell you'd do that with a friend surely, let alone your offspring.

And yet again you interpret my words weirdly. If you're unable to understand basic nuance and metaphor then perhaps don't troll, it just makes you look a little desperate.

Then why a the comments about parents needing to parent, parents should discuss this with their children, it's not lecturers jobs to support mh but the parents and so on

I haven’t said any of this so not sure why you highlight my name and say “you can’t blame parents, etc”. You do know we are not a hive mind? We have different opinions? So don’t highlight my name and say “you shouldn’t say blah blah blah” when I haven’t.

I have a friend who I had to talk down from returning from a holiday in Cuba to face off with a teacher who had given her daughter a C for an essay. She was apoplectic with rage about the grade and knew for a fact it should have been higher. (Because she had essentially dictated the essay herself). I had already spent three days advising the dd to make an appointment and discuss how she could have done better.
The dd is now third year and won’t tell her mum where she lives, or give her any details.
Lots of kids want to vent about stuff. They aren’t venting to turn their parents into vigilantes to destroy their academic enemies and burn their institutions to the ground. I suspect hear’s kid would be horrified about the lashing her mum is giving all academics in her name. I don’t think I had any academic support in my final year of an Eng Lit degree. It’s one of the easiest to complete without any uni contact at all. Online resources at most libraries are fantastic and even local libraries will help source hard copies if you find the available texts and articles online aren’t how you prefer to work. It’s a great test of resourcefulness and adulting. Contacting people, exploring loads of different possible solutions, learning to work your way around a problem to find a solution. I’d be really disappointed if my third year dd couldn’t figure out how to finish Eng Lit essays independently over the course of months (having been given an extension). I wouldn’t be yelling at her lecturers, and certainly not ALL lecturers. I’d be asking her what she’s going to do about it.
Astonishing.
I love that you are still being so exacting, though Xenia. Those PDFs are just not acceptable.

Although I do agree that parents should have such discussions with their kids. But I totally get that the student will make the decision not the parent. And while I think parents should talk to their kids the unis still can’t legally talk to the parents.

You have to deal with student MH in the same way A and E staff have to deal paralytically drunk people

You still aren't getting it are you?
If you are a nurse or doctor working in a hospital your job is to treat patients even if they are drunk.
My job is to teach. I am not qualified to deal with MH issues nor is it my job. Yet it's something I'm increasingly expected to do.

Hooves you need to try to understand the difference between an analogy and two things being the same.

But i suppose, haterz gonna hate. You seem to have such anger about anyone saying anything that might suggest they know different things to you. You don’t like experts. Goddess knows how you manage to work with anyone, you’d start an argument in an empty room.

titchy

You compared lecturers dealing with students MH to being like nurses dealing with drunk people in A and E on a Friday night - I'm not a troll for pointing out that that is offensive!

enragedpenfold

Great - how many libraries, local or otherwise, are open? How can you get a library to source anything for you when they are all closed?

And, I'm perfectly entitled to hold my own views on what her university are, or aren't doing. I don't say them to get. But as I'm expected to have paid out thousands of pounds over the three years I am entitled to hold an opinion on the quality of that education.

SueEllenMishke

Using drunks on a Friday night in A and E as a comparison with students mental health is offensive.

CatandtheFiddle

There is no analogy between people with mental health issues and drunks in an A and E.

Only if you don't understand the analogy 🤷

Oh I understand it. I understand it very well. If it was meant to be an analogy illustrating lecturers struggling to deal with something that they feel not qualified to deal with then there are much better analogies. To use a comparison with paralytic drunks in A and E on a Friday night then the intention behind that analogy is very clear.

Or what an analogy is, as a rhetorical figure of speech

Hooves you are entitled to hold whatever OPINION you like about the efficacy of your daughter’s education. Anyone can opine about that.

But you are not entitled to generalise from your second hand and anecdotal knowledge about all universities and their employees. Everything you say in these general terms demonstrates your prejudice born out of ignorance.

So you do understand the analogy. You're just choosing to misunderstand the intention behind it because you refuse to cut any academic some slack or acknowledge anything positive.

I'm not misunderstanding the intention behind it - it's very clear. What difficulties do "paralytic drunks in A and E on a Friday night" present for nurses - they are combative, aggressive, take up a lot of staff time, present risks to themselves and others - in what way are they analogous to students with mental health issues or how are you interpreting the analogy in a non offensive way?

Because it wasn't about the students or the drunks. It was about staff having to deal with things out of their control - things they aren't necessarily trained to do. It's about staff doing their best in difficult circumstances.

But you know that.... however, you're delighted to have found another stick to beat us with.

I'm reminded of the student who came to see me unhappy that she'd failed her assignment. She had shown it to her mum and her mum thought it was good and should pass. Her mum had a degree in a similar but different subject. She wasn't a uni lecturer (I did ask). Apparently both the student and her mum thought that her degree in a different subject made her more qualified than me as a senior lecturer to assess the quality of the work.

I asked the student if she'd also shown her mum the learning outcomes for the assignment.... She hadn't.

I once had a parent email me to tell me she thought her daughter’s essay was undermarked. I think the mother was a nurse but had done my subject at school or something. Clearly far more expert in the subject than I was (hint: my discipline is light years away from nursing).

SueEllenMishke

If that was the intent behind that analogy then they would have used a better example, one that didn't compare lecturers and students with MH conditions with nurses and paralytic drunks.

Don't complain that people are offended when you say something offensive. That was a very strange analogy to use if they weren't drawing comparisons between the examples given. If they wanted to illustrate lecturers being out of their depth then there are much better, and inoffensive analogies that could be used.