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University Fees for on-line Lectures

999 replies

Kastanien · 04/05/2020 09:00

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

OP posts:
Chemenger · 07/05/2020 12:04

We have funds to help students without access to the internet. This includes loan laptops and mobile data packages, if needed. The majority of the students in my own department have a custom laptop supplied by us. The exams are done on paper and returned by taking pictures on a phone or scanning.

AgileLass · 07/05/2020 12:05

I would be very surprised if we have a situation where across the board refunds are given.

The Minister for Universities has already ruled that out.

AgileLass · 07/05/2020 12:07

My institution also has a fund to support students without adequate equipment or internet access.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:12

We planned as best we could for them too. They were the future once, just a slightly more immediate one. Unless you think we should have been planning for the pandemic last September, that's really not something I can see how we could have changed.

No I don't think that. You're being ridiculous. I get you didn't know this was going to happen. What I don't get is that, particularly final year students, had a matter of weeks left so no time for people to figure it out, get up to speed etc and yet very little leeway or allowance has been given to these students. My dd is doing a modular course. Because of the strikes, that immediately preceded lockdown, she has had no teaching or input on her modules that started after reading week in February and for the module that was meant to run from January to March she only had four weeks of tuition from mid Jan to mid Feb. She has still and to complete all of ten essays from these modules though and yet no attempt was made to catch them up or to.provide any replacement teaching. Yes, they've implemented a no detriment policy but given her limited work from this year I'm not sure that her average grade, on unaffected work, is broad enough to be a fair reflection.

My nephew, is due to sit final exams. They petitioned for subjects that they haven't covered to be excluded from the exams but we're told no. The exams are already written and so it will stand.

So, yes, I understand that you were all trying to rush things through and no one was prepared but that doesn't excuse not being completely fair and reasonable to students for whom time was running out. Particularly when it was on the back of a second wave of industrial action.

TheMerrickBoy · 07/05/2020 12:16

Yeah my Virgin broadband has been a bit rubbish too.

It sounds now like you're talking specifically about students with technical problems of all kinds who are struggling access learning, rather than ones who didn;t want online learning and don't want to pay for it, which is a much clearer and more specific issue.

Like AgileLass and Chemenger's, my uni also has loans and provisions for such situations, and students can also apply for funds for individual financial hardship.

SueEllenMishke · 07/05/2020 12:16

Students asking for refunds isn't a new thing ....it happens every year. There are already policies and procedures in place for this.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:17

Great for those who have a fund for IT equipment, outside of a pandemic. Presumably this is a hardship fund though and not an exceptional circumstances fund?

So my nephew for example - how would you get him connected online so that he can access online work, content and exams when his home internet has gone down? It isn't a financial issue, it is a provider issue.

TheMerrickBoy · 07/05/2020 12:19

So it's really about the strikes at your daughter's university, not Covid, or online learning, or facebook people with no internet access?

Sorry if I seem obtuse, it's just that this seems to keep switching around.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:21

TheMerrickBoy

But it isn't a financial issue in the case of Virgin. That is a practical issue that a hardship payment won't help.

Same as the girl.in the Facebook group - how can she quickly get online in order to complete exams and access online content when her family home doesn't have internet access? My husband is a broadband engineer ; they won't go into customers houses at the moment. If a problem can be fixed outside then fine. If it's a new installation or a fault inside the house then it isn't being done.

Maybe any refunds awarded due to a failure of a university will be initially paid by government with universities having to pay them back over time?

TheMerrickBoy · 07/05/2020 12:22

If they find that university's failed to make Virgin work properly, yeah, maybe that's what will happen.

Chemenger · 07/05/2020 12:23

Does your nephew, or anyone in his household have a phone that could be used as a WiFi hotspot? If so we would buy him data.

TheMerrickBoy · 07/05/2020 12:25

I said we had a hardship fund AS WELL as the IT support and loans of equipment etc. It was just a side issue. Some students are facing considerable loss of earnings right now.

AgileLass · 07/05/2020 12:26

My institution is sending dongles to students and/or topping up data on phones to tether to laptops.

You really sound like you’re just casting around desperately for any reason possible to have a go.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:26

TheMerrickBoy

It's about the whole thing.

Covid would be bad enough but for her, if that was the only disruption then it wouldn't be too bad.

But the lockdown coming immediately after a four week strike has basically written off the entire semester from February onwards. For her, that means some modules have not been taught, work set and no feedback given.

That then added to the strikes before Christmas just make this whole year a shit show which I find difficult to justify charging her £9500 for, and that's without considering the impact on her degree.

My point is that there are students suffering real difficulty in accessing the online content, regardless of how good it may or may not be and yet those of you here who are staff just keep reiterating how good a provision you have in place but many students aren't accessing it. Have you thought to ask why they aren't?

TheMerrickBoy · 07/05/2020 12:28

Can I respectfully ask you to read the above posts? We are not reiterating that our provision is good, we are TELLING YOU WHAT WE ARE DOING TO HELP THEM ACCESS IT.

AgileLass · 07/05/2020 12:29

My point is that there are students suffering real difficulty in accessing the online content, regardless of how good it may or may not be and yet those of you here who are staff just keep reiterating how good a provision you have in place but many students aren't accessing it. Have you thought to ask why they aren't?

Yes. You aren’t bringing any special insight, you know - we know how to do our jobs and support students Hmm

Newgirls · 07/05/2020 12:31

Across board fee reductions aren’t logical. Sounds like some courses are being delivered well, perhaps even better.

For those that can’t work well (labs, drama etc) reductions might be the way to keep/recruit students. Surely it’s all being discussed. I know cheaper courses fund others but some just can’t be delivered.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:31

I'm not casting around for problems. I'm describing.problems that students bare telling me about. I didn't know that universities would supply dongles or pay for data. I wouldn't have the first clue about it or how to make that work but I will pass it on to him to see if they can help.

The girl on Facebook though has approached her university about lack of internet access as a reason for needing to drop out and she hasn't reported an offer to supply internet access, just that she could retake next year.

I'll tell her that she should expect them to provide it for her and to make a complaint if they don't.

SueEllenMishke · 07/05/2020 12:32

but many students aren't accessing it. Have you thought to ask why they aren't?

I'd change many to some.....
However, of course we bloody have and do. We then support those that are struggling the best we can.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 07/05/2020 12:34

You aren’t bringing any special insight, you know - we know how to do our jobs and support students hmm

Great. Then maybe students could be informed of the help available? As I said earlier, when my DD approached student well being with a general enquiry about what support was on offer she was told their advice is to go home.

SueEllenMishke · 07/05/2020 12:40

That is one example of one university ....there are over 300 higher education institutions you know......

and to repeat myself, in the vast majority of cases students are being told this. There is a very clear FAQ on our home page and an email is sent every time it is updated.

Chemenger · 07/05/2020 12:43

All the information about our support is on the university website in a section linked from the homepage. Additionally, it is covered in regular emails from the university and the department. All students have been contacted by their tutors and encouraged to get in touch to discuss any difficulties they are having. Admittedly this has mostly taken place by email, but that is our normal default means of communication.

CatandtheFiddle · 07/05/2020 12:44

yet very little leeway or allowance has been given to these students

As you have been told, many times over, this is untrue.

You are generalising from the second-hand information you have from your DD.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I now think you are just a goady fucker, with a huge chip on her shoulder, and envious of academics for some reason. Maybe a teacher at school told you you were stupid.

I'm out of here. I have online meetings with students from 1pm until about 8pm (to account for time differences for international students). I started at my desk at 6am to try to get a bit of work done in the quiet.

What are YOU doing HearsHooves to assist around 300 young people?

AgileLass · 07/05/2020 12:44

Great. Then maybe students could be informed of the help available?

My students ARE informed. They don’t all read their emails properly (or at all), but they are informed. They also have a responsibility to ensure they are accessing the available information and to ask for help if needed.

Stop berating us with the apparent failures of your daughter’s institution. If a Dept or institution is not providing adequate support, academics on here have told you and others, multiple times, that your DD should complain, via the internal processes and the external ones if necessary. You keep coming back with increasingly convoluted scenarios to try and get a “gotcha” moment but it’s making you look ridiculous.

titchy · 07/05/2020 12:50

The girl on Facebook though has approached her university about lack of internet access as a reason for needing to drop out and she hasn't reported an offer to supply internet access, just that she could retake next year.

Presumably she hasn't reported any offer from her university on the FB group, because, you know, she has no internet access with which to login to FB....

My institution are also posting out
phones with 4g data packages.

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