Do we need a stricter lockdown?

[Gingerkittykat]

On my Facebook feed today I've had one person post pics of her new hair that her friend helped her do (They don't live together) and my cousins met up for a socially distanced walk (ie stayed 2m apart) and they walked past a friends house for a chat. There were three drunks walking along my street, I'm guessing they didn't live together and even if they did there would be no reason to go out.

My DD also got a phone call from my friend asking for help to set up her friends new phone, the friend was there in the livingroom with her.

These are all sensible people normally who are just getting fed up of lockdown and doing their own risk assessments.

I can't decide whether or not this means we should have a stricter lockdown like France to make people stick to it or we need to lighten up and just let people get on with it.

I've noticed less of the posts with people screaming that people going out are killing others too.

Regarding the people who are furloughed.

Some are definitely enjoying it. But some are not. We brought back a third of or work force. We had a small, but significant number come up with all sorts of excuses not to work. People all of a sudden sheilding, except we have regular medicals and they are legally obliged to inform us about health issues, due to the nature of our work, and they have no underlying conditions and they don't have a letter or anything that backs it up

People claiming the elderly parents were sheildimg and had moved in, some of whom had, had bereavement leave for both parents.

All staff, furloughed and non furloughed were asked to keep HR updated of any of these things so we could plan the return properly. They cause huge amounts of work for their managers and HR. The vast majority were talking bollocks.

But some people are struggling. I spoke to my whole team. I am bringing one person back. We work from home. So I didnt need to worry about who has health issues etc. One is shielding, but will remain working from home if we are brought back to the office. Some are OK, the less pay isn't impacting them because they arent paying travel costs, not spending money on lunch breaks and arent going anywhere. They are spending time doing work in their house and enjoying it. Good on them. Some are really struggling mentally. Not financially. Luckily, my whole team are ok financially. But mentally its really dragging them down.

I have brough back the one I have noticed is getting worse as the weeks go on as she has nothing left to do. The team agreed it was the right thing. She is so bloody happy to be coming back.

Bluntness100

I don't disagree with that but also how do you propose people just get on with it and get back to work when the schools are closed?

No we don't. Our lockdown has worked in the way it was meant to, in a way that suited our society.

Bluntness I want to go back to work, but my job isn't possible to do from home and I'm a single parent so I'm not sure what my options are unless school reopens.

It should be lifted.

We don't need a stricter lockdown, we just need people to stick to the rules we have (and I am being a little hypocritical as I have taken my car out twice for a 15 minute drive around the block but otherwise I have followed the rules).

I've noticed less of the posts with people screaming that people going out are killing others too

a bit, but there are still people saying they won't go out even for a walk because they are frightened. It hasn't helped that there has had been so much misinformation about, for example, the virus being airborne eg that cartoon that says "would you go out if you could see it" and has the whole street full of the virus. It's not radioactivity!

stop non essential flights or at least implement checks and quarantine 95% of flight have stopped and while we're not doing checks people are coming out of lockdown zones (possibly stricter than ours) into a lockdown zone. The air travel thing is another piece of misinformation. People are either coming home, or they are coming in to work. Nobody is coming in for "frivolous" reasons. Hotels are closed except to house NHS/other key workers.

If you want stricter lockdown you’re going to have to financially support people (see the people that still have to work, the self employed that have fallen through the massive cracks or can’t actually survive until June). Having just read the grumbles about furlough I don’t think there much public appetite for financially helping people more.

But after however many weeks of this in its current state you are absolutely not locking me down any further. I’ve followed the government guidelines, I’ve not seen anyone else or gone further than my local park and I’m bloody miserable.

As such clearly the answer is no we don’t need a stricter lock down as the nhs has not been overwhelmed. If it had, yes we would need a stricter one

NHS not overwhelmed because people have been left at home with serious CV symptoms and all other treatments either stopped or severely curtailed.... its not a success story.
Johnsons treatment (and Germany's example) shows how early intervention can reduce symptoms to a manageable level.

We went too far, as proven by the complete lack of use of the Nightingale hospitals.

Our very weak Lockdown will (or should) continue for many more weeks, we have 600 - 700 CV deaths per day and that's an underestimate.
France has around 200 to 300 (inc community) deaths and still has severe lockdown measures.

No and we need to relax the current one for less physically medically vulnerable because the mental health problems are soaring which will unfortunately mean an increase in suicides, as will the financial crisis that's close to inevitable, the self employed are at most risk

NHS not overwhelmed because people have been left at home with serious CV symptoms and all other treatments either stopped or severely curtailed

That’s factually incorrect. Yes people have been left home, but that’s not why it’s not overwhelmed, they could have taken more and kept other folks coming in for different treatments, it didn’t need to be as strict as it was,

Bluntness100

thats what i said.... we went too far and left people at home.....

zero insight into the forthcoming economic tsunami their lazy actions are creating. Sure, stay home til it's eradicated (which is no time soon) but do it from your own savings.
Exactly.
The lockdown was to prevent overburdening the NHS.
It hasn't - there is massive unused capacity. A friend in the NHS is morning about the lack of work to do. She is working from
Home and delighted t be able to use her NHS card for priority shopping etc -all good for her.

Anyway according to the Times, this is what is planned for this week:

Officials will only tweak the lockdown this week, encouraging building sites to reopen, relaxing rules on outdoor activities, urging people to cover their faces on public transport and key workers to put their children back in school.

Businesses will be given three weeks to prepare work spaces so people can remain socially distanced. Johnson will then lay out proposals to make bigger changes at the end of May. They will see pupils who have key tests or exams next year (Sats, GCSEs and A-levels), return to school, and more retailers, such as garden centres, reopen. Office workers will be told to stagger the working day, keep canteens closed and have a red and blue teams working different days.

No - the time for a stricter lockdown was right at the beginning. And actually the Government was slow in reacting to threat of the virus. For example not banning Cheltenham and that football match in Liverpool. I actually think the Government are surprised at the high level of obedience to the rules! They've now got a problem as many people are now so scared they don't want to venture out anyway. Personally I would like to see lockdown eased, but in a balanced and measured way. If the numbers creep up, then it will have to be adjusted.

Personally we have obeyed the rules (so far), been getting our groceries delivered, walking in our local area (not a hardship, we live near absolutely beautiful forest). It's been great to see more people out enjoying it, too. But for me the big issue is wanting to see our very small, close family. I am supposed to be doing childcare for my daughter when she goes back to work in late summer from maternity leave. As I understand it, this is 'forbidden', - how does that work? Is it better for him to be in a nursery than at home with me? The risk of infection would be many times more. My daughter's husband is working at home for the foreseeable. I just want to be able to see them. I hope the Government will soon be addressing this issue, but I won't hold my breath.

No. If we were going to try to eradicate the virus from the U.K., the lockdown came far too late. That wasn't the aim. The aim was to protect the NHS by keeping those needing hospital care within its capacity. We've done that.

I am really concerned about the effect of a strict lockdown on mental and physical health. Kids in Spain not allowed out of city apartments for six weeks? A whole population deprived of access to sunlight when there are several studies showing a correlation between low vitamin d levels and poorer outcomes?

relaxing rules on outdoor activities

I would like to be able to drive a short way for exercise as my local area is too busy.

I wonder if you might be able to meet in small groups or with one other person for a run?

Johnson will then lay out proposals to make bigger changes at the end of May. They will see pupils who have key tests or exams next year (Sats, GCSEs and A-levels), return to school

As I have a son in Y12, I hope so.

I am really concerned about the effect of a strict lockdown on mental and physical health. Kids in Spain not allowed out of city apartments for six weeks

I know, completely mad. And yet you were allowed to take dogs out. Dogs had more rights than kids (yes I know, you don't want a dog fouling your house/flat, but still).

Dad Ybw is your situation I would absolutely care for my grandchild whatever the rules' say. You are not burdening the NHS and the rules are all about the NHS, nothing else.

Yes we do.

We need people at home or in hospital & not infecting other people.

I'm not sure how some people think lock down doesn't stop it spreading? If infectious people aren't meeting up with other people then there's no one to spread it too. It's pretty bloody logical

@LilacTree1. Dingwall is a sociologist for NERVTAG - nervtag advises SAGE, but there's nothing to say others in nervtag agree with him.

Listen to the Epidemiologists & virologists -not sociologists if you actually want specialist opinions on virus'. Not social reactions.

(and I know you CAN drive for exercise but I can exercise quite easily from my front door, it's just too busy at times)

I'm not sure how some people think lock down doesn't stop it spreading? If infectious people aren't meeting up with other people then there's no one to spread it too. It's pretty bloody logical

But it's illogical to bankrupt people who were living just fine before all this. The fallout from this I think will be worse than the virus.

I live alone, and I have found lockdown tough. I am aware that I live in a rural community, and have a garden and so am more fortunate than many.

From the start of this I was prepared for a marathon, not a sprint, so even in the early days I was not adhering totally to the rules.

In the last six weeks, I haven’t been more that a mile from home. I haven’t needed to. I have really reduced my shopping. I go to the same Lidl and time my visits for when it is quiet. I am also supporting the local butcher and baker.

Each evening I have continued to walk round the park with my dog, with the same person I have walked round with for years. I designated them an honorary family member, and so have not bothered with social distancing in that isolated case. The walk takes about 15 minutes, and so my personal risk assessment has been that that’s okay.

In the morning if i see other dog walkers I know we chat from the 2 metre plus distance.

I have visited a friend a couple of times over the six weeks. We have sat outside in the garden maintaining the 2 metre plus distance.

I am still stroking other dogs I know, and I have refused to wash groceries or leave post to disinfect. My reasoning for this is we all do have to catch it at some point in some form, and the viral load on these items must be minimal. However I don’t think it’s a bad thing to expose my immune system to a small amount of the virus.

The negatives are the effect on my joints, of not being able to do my usual swimming and Pilates. I am on a waiting list for a knee replacement. The knock on effects of the operation delays caused by this virus are going to be really difficult for me. Basically I need to have both knees replaced, my left hip needs redoing for the 3rd time, and my right hip for the first. I am riddled with Osteo arthritis. I am struggling to walk on some days.

I also suffer from health anxiety and being alone so much is not good for me.

I am not expecting a return to complete normality for months if not years, but the impact of lockdown v the effects of the virus have to be judged.

If lockdown becomes permanent then I am not sure that’s an existence I want. I think I would rather take my chance with the virus.

No way!! Things need to slowly return to the new 'normal'

No I think being allowed to exercise and take children outside (eg if in a flat) is important.

Thankfully a lot of businesses are re-opening. I haven’t stopped working outside of the home and my window cleaner came round on Friday which I was grateful for.