Coronaphobia - people just have to get a grip

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

I'm really worried that irrational fears are going to absolutely ruin the country as well as putting people at massive risk of dying from other things or developing mental health. And God knows what parents with it will do to their dc's mental health and development (keeping dc off school until there's a vaccination etc.)

Celen, I'm very sad for you that you feel that way, but that really doesn't mean society in general should be that nihilistic with the lives of people in general. There is also no assurances your kids will be ok. Young fit people have really suffered and died too. We have no idea of the long term affects of this virus.

Can you get any help?

Well it’s nice that your situation and health allow you this view op.

Others aren’t so lucky.

Everything Bimbleboo says.

Those saying it's ok if they die as long as their children can return to school very briefly (before the second wave and the next lockdown). They'll be ok. Really?? Losing a parent at any age is hard but it deeply impacts children at a time when their minds are still developing. Now that's a mental health crisis in the waiting. Children struggle even when it's a very abusive parent that's died. And as Detroit says children can be affected by Covid. Not as many as adults but some have been very ill. We also don't yet know the long-term impact of this virus. At this stage a cautious(but unpanicked) approach is wise.

@Quartz2208
What do you suggest jasjas1973 because nothing is perfect

I feel the mistakes made in february will make our lockdown longer and the death toll higher than otherwise would have been.
We either mistakenly or deliberately allowed CV into the care home system, this is a pool of infection that will be very difficult to reduce... until nature takes it's course :(
Care home workers are not getting the support they need, either with PPE or sick pay.

We are entering our 7th week of lockdown, still with 700 deaths per day, its quite staggering, esp as those figures are an underestimate.

So, back to your question, i think we need to up the enforcement of our so called lockdown, many people have stopped taking any notice of it now.... a huge effort to eradicate CV in the care home system, earlier treatment of CV victims and get tracing of positive Cv patients up and running.

I think we are weeks possibly months away from easing lockdown, we cannot undo what was messed up earlier on.

Hopefully I will be going back to work on the 1st June, I may die of the virus but my risk is low, I can easily do social distancing in my role, I don’t have to go on public transport so why wouldn’t I want to start getting back to normal. I am probably more likely to die of cancer than the coronvirus. I would quite happily send my daughter back to school too but i can’t see that happening until September.

Everyone who is following the rules and is staying in (if they’re not a key worker) is helping to slow the spread. The virus can’t hang around in thin air/on surfaces indefinitely. It needs a nearby human to infect.

So those who can keep distancing are still helping the ones who do have to work from getting it, because there are fewer people out and about for it to jump between.

The economy doesn’t have to go back to exactly how it was. This is only anecdotal but I don’t directly know anyone who’s furloughed at the moment. The ones who aren’t key workers have been able to work from home, and it’s ended up going quite well for all of them, with bosses realising that online meetings work well, and that there may be more possibility for some to work from home more after all this.

I know there are lots of jobs that need to be done in person, but we can be creative about others, to keep the economy ticking over (with government support for the time being) and reduce deaths/illnesses too.

It's like saying we can't use any word that had a negative Greek or Latin etymology that only some people are aware of

Agree with this. Sinister comes from the Latin meaning left, and is therefore offensive to people who are lefthanded.

We either mistakenly or deliberately allowed CV into the care home system, this is a pool of infection that will be very difficult to reduce... until nature takes it's course

There was an article in the Times on Friday about a care home where the head nurse/owner had worked in hospitals during the swine flu outbreak. She introduced swine flu protocols, used communal areas as isolation wards and had no deaths. That said, there were cases, and I don't know how she managed to ensure that nobody died - that part wasn't explained. However, it shows that having a plan works.

Yes but sinister last meant something bad in Roman times. Hysteria was used up until the 1970s. That’s the difference.

Jasjas

Why do you say that the daily death figures are an underestimate, please?

I honestly think it is very unlikely that the lockdowm will extend beyond the end of this month. Although the number of deaths still seems high due to the changes to the way it is reported if you view it as a 7 day average it does show that it is dropping quite consistently now.

Getting the test and trace system up an running is key and I’d really like to see that happen pretty soon.

I agree that care homes are an ongoing issue although, to be fair, they seem to have been problematic across the world. All countries have struggled to contain outbreaks in those settings. That’s not to say we shouldn’t be trying harder because we absolutely should but the very nature of care homes will always make them a weak spot where this virus is concerned.

Personally I’d like to see the army going in to provide additional support with things like cleaning, perhaps building temporary accommodation on site for staff so they can stay if possible to minimise risk, sending small teams of nhs staff into homes where there are cases to treat people in quarantined areas of the home so that staff don’t have to again minimising risk.

Hopefully as the overall rate of infection in the community drops the risk to care homes will lessen.

What is enforcement of lockdown going to do - the curve is going down now (as is Sweden’s actually)

We aren’t on 700 deaths per day in the way you see it. The comparison is hospital deaths and they are dropping. The numbers that come through are in a way meaningless for comparison as they aren’t who died on a particular day. The ONS and NHS England show the days and they are dropping. I am fine with just taking hospital deaths because from a data perspective you can compare

Care homes is an awful thing but not just the UK and to be honest won’t be part of the lockdown lifting anyway. Proper systems should be put in place

I agree earlier treatment and tracing but that is part of lockdown lifting. Lockdown was designed to bring R0 under 1 once that has been achieved the next steps are needed with some understanding there will be tweaking if it goes above 1

I am still scared for my family, they came home, but will need to fly the nest again.
the virus is still frightening.

The daily figures are only people who have been tested.

Those who weren’t tested but have strongly suspected Covid even with it on the death certificate are not included.

That’s not a conspiracy theory it’s explicitly stated with the figure and reflected in the ONS figures released every Tuesday.

The real numbers are far higher

That was in reply to the poster who queried another poster saying figures were underestimated

Those saying that younger people aren't at risk because they aren't dying in significant numbers are really missing the point. Younger people, under 50 or even 40, are getting it. They are getting significant illness and needing to be hospitalised. Yes, the vast majority recover well enough to be discharged, the slating effects remain to be seen. However, the point is, they were I'll enough to need to be in hospital. If we end lockdown too soon there will quickly be a second wave at which point the NHS risks being overwhelmed again but this time with an exhausted staff who have already endured weeks of horrendous conditions. Many have left their families to avoid infecting them and are working longer hours than normal in terrible conditions. America is now reporting a mental health crisis amongst health care staff because of what they have witnessed. As a younger healthy person you might not now fear this infection but does that mean if you do get it you won't want hospital treatment if it's required?

We need to give the NHS a chance here. To let it start to get back to normal, to start normal treatment again and to let the staff recover. We can't just demand to get our lives back and then start the onslaught on the NHS all over again before the staff have had any chance to recover from this wave.

I agree with jasjas. We have to have fast and reliable testing in place plus a reliable track and trace process in place before lockdown is eased but that requires cooperation from 90% of the population. How many on here will object to a tracking app on your phone? On other threads I've seen loads of people saying they won't accept it but that will be a key feature in releasing lockdown.

I think we need more data before we say some ages are safe(r). For example i would like to know what percentage of the confirmed cases are under 40s/50s. For example in italy only 30% of the confirmed cases are in under 50s. The uk hasnt given us information like this. I would also like to know hospitalisation rates for each age group.

OP you mention kids' mental health as though you're an advocate which is great. But then you also use the phrase get a grip... which to anyone who already has mental health issues is extremely insensitive. If it were so easy for people to 'get a grip', mental health issues would never arise in the first place. For example I suffer from anxiety and have done for a long time. I've been going to work and crying myself to sleep every night in fear that I've caught something and passed it on to my family. This will only increase when lockdown is lifted. Am I supposed to just 'get a grip'? Perhaps some people think I should, and those are likely the people who are fortunate enough not to have experienced severe mental health issues.

Jrobhatch29

I agree, we need much more research.

I remember early on where there was a question as to whether infection could lead to infertility, similar to mumps, for example. I haven't heard it mentioned for a long time so maybe they've ruled it out but that would have serious implications for younger people. We really need to know what ongoing issues people might develop from this which we won't know for a while yet.

My gut feeling is that it's too early to decide that certain groups are absolutely safe.

No group will be absolutely safe. I think the reality is that the definite answers people are seeking will not be available for months, possibly years if ever.

It won’t be possible to sustain lockdown until we have the answer to every concern. There is a risk that as a result of this virus people will die and that there will be long term effects for some. I don’t think that can be entirely avoided.

I suspect we will remain locked down for a further 3 weeks following the review on Thursday. I think that is probably the right decision. Beyond that (unless there is a massive shift in numbers in the wrong direction) the lockdown will, I suspect, start to slowly be lifted.

I’m hopeful that testing capacity will have ramped up further, that the app will be operational and cases will be lower. We should also get provisional data on the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine around June so let’s keep our fingers crossed for that.

The app won’t be compulsory but I suspect a lot more people than you think will download it. Just my gut instinct on it.

I don't think the app will be compulsory but I think they will "incentivise" people to use it. In South Korea I think you need to show it to use public transport or enter buildings for example, so you don't have to use it but it's pretty impossible to not use it.

Our government have acknowledged that some people won't be able to use it due to no access to the technology so we'll have to see what happens.

We don't even know how many people have been infected yet. Government have said between 2-4% of UK population, but the lots of other figures have been suggested. No one even seems to know that.

And no one is asking for them to know everything they can about this virus. But I first heard about covid toes this week. That seems a pretty basic piece of information not to have come out. Something easily visible. So it makes me question how much we are still not being told, so they can get us all to send our kids back to school and go back to work.

Of course those who are well off will still be self isolating I suspect. And I suspect private schools won't go back.

I agree everything jasjas1973 says.

I'd be interested to know how many under 40 or 50s required hospital treatment. In Italy 50% of hospitalised patients were under 60, many in their 30s and 40s (an age when many will have young children, who won't want to lose their parents). That's one of the reasons why older patients died. They aren't given a chance of survival due to lack of hospital capacity. Italy has more capacity than us.

Lockdown lifts too early and we have a second wave. It's likely more under 40 or 50s will die. We won't have enough hospital beds or staff(who will be sick or dead) to treat them.

The sensible thing would be to follow suit of NYC, another hard hit area. Employers there talk of wfh until at least September. Schools closed until them too.

America might have got some things wrong in handling the pandemic but they're clearly doing better than us. Per million population their death rate is much lower than ours (lower than many other European countries too). Perhaps it's helped having strict border controls. We continue to receive daily non essential flights. Yes, reduced passenger numbers, but several thousand a day with no checks or quarantine might go some way towards explaining why our death rates are still very high despite a semi lockdown.

I think private schools will be open as soon as the government say they can! They won’t survive for a protracted period without fees.

I think all anyone can do is look beyond the newspaper headlines to the raw data and make their own decisions based on what is an acceptable level of risk for them, keeping in mind that COVID is not the only risk that needs to be considered.

I’m not sure the number of people affected makes much of a difference to ending lockdown. The assumption is that a very small proportion of the population have been affected. If it turns out that a lot more people have been affected that will reduce the risks overall as it will slow the spread (assuming there is at least some short term immunity which seems increasingly likely to be the case).

Private school fees are still being paid as teaching is still being provided. Refunds on catering costs/trips but thats a minimum

The problem for many private schools will be the number of parents who have been made redundant and unable to pay fees though I can see the government helping out in some way as many state school in areas where schools are over subscribed will struggle taking on more pupils

Schools can not open up to all pupils everyday and maintain social distancing its impossible. DS school struggles with just a few pupils in especially the younger pupils. I think likely to be staggered returns as with working.