Death rates vastly different in more affluent areas

[Rainycloudyday]

Sorry if there has already been a thread on this. News today shows the shocking difference in death rates in more and less affluent areas. I’m not at all surprised sadly. On here I’m always surprised when people talk of knowing multiple people who have died. I live in a reasonably comfortable middle class area I suppose, and am from that background, and (touch wood) don’t personally know anyone who has passed away or been in hospital from Covid. For people who have lost several people around them, friends, neighbours etc. are you in more or less affluent areas?

" this is where public health messages go wrong. They are designed to appeal to white middle class people. The messaging tends not to appeal to or reach people who are BAME or economically more deprived."

I don't agree with that. If you look at the health messages given in TV programmes, they're generally very simplified and seem to be targeted at people without much education.

Less affluent friends posted photos on social media the night before lockdown doing the opposite of social distancing.

I live in a relatively affluent area. Let me assure you that social media locally was awash with people having last minute gatherings with friends or to go to restaurants before lockdown was announced precisely because they knew it was imminent because they were aware of the health messages out there.

I don't agree that messaging itself is the problem here.

Where it did fail was in it not being translated and communicated to communities which have low levels of English speaking.

In reality of all your mates are still working and being exposed because they are in low part high risk jobs, does the message hold as much weight for you. If the risk is so bad, why are you still being expected to work. Lockdown therefore seems to be 'something for other people who aren't like me' and does not have the same level of relevance.

Poverty isn't a choice. Nor are health issues associated with poverty. Nor are occupational risks associated with poverty.

I posted this on another thread, but it's quite the eye opener.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/01/covid-19-coronavirus-newham-london-uk-worst-affected-area

Very similar situation to that in the last post in New York also. In terms of the areas affected.

This whole situation simple highlights the social inequalities that have been affecting poorer and BAMe communities for years. Saw this on the BBC london news last night as well. More people dying per thousand in Newham in comparison to rich boroughs. Hopefully now the government will now wake up and address this, but health, education, etc inequalities are nothing new to people who have experienced this injustice. Breaks my heart

Poverty isn't a choice

Yes it is, it absolutely is a choice. We as a society can choose to do something about it, government can choose to do something about it. They/we, have chosen not to, we have repeatedly chosen to widen the gap between rich and poor and make people poorer and poorer. Secure, affordable, suitable housing, has become a thing of the past for poor people and is increasingly only available to the well off. Zero hours contracts didn't exist until recent years, people had a secure job and could plan for the future, food banks (beloved of Rees Mogg) were almost unheard of. These are all political choices we have made, the poor may not have chosen poverty but we absolutely have chosen it for them.

No

I live in an affluent, rural/sparsely populated area. I know several people who have died. Its on my estate and 2 cases in my street. All white collar and not elderly.

Hopefully now the government will now wake up and address this, but health, education, etc inequalities are nothing new to people who have experienced this injustice

Ha ha. Take a look at Boris Johnson's voting record.

www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10999/boris_johnson/uxbridge_and_south_ruislip/votes

I agree with many of the points made, @TooTrueToBeGood and @ToffeeYoghurt’s posts especially.

Diabetes seems to be a problem for mortality with Covid, and the link with obesity in more deprived areas would help skew things. Also there’s the evidence about ethnic minorities seeming to be more susceptible to Covid, and there’s a disproportionate number of ethnic minorities classed as ‘never worked’ in UK (even amongst the men), which again might skew death rates in deprived areas.

Ha ha.Take a look at Boris Johnson's voting record.

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown?

2001 - "Prime Minister Tony Blair has vowed to push through changes to the benefits system which could see disabled people undergo medicals to check whether they are fit for work."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1421401.stm

2004 - "Blair signals welfare crackdown."

www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/oct/14/labour.uk

2007 - "The government faces a fierce backlash this week over plans to force single mothers of secondary school age children into employment."

www.theguardian.com/society/2007/mar/04/socialexclusion.politics

Like others, I'm surprised anyone is surprised by this. There's long been a link between morbidity and poverty. Put bluntly, poor people have harder lives and that takes its toll on their health.

Oh here we go, another variation on what about Corbyn. Forget all the initiatives like Surestart that supported tens of thousands in poverty and which have been systematically destroyed over the last ten years.

Tony Blair's government was ' Tory lite'
The fact that the Sun got behind them in 1997 was a big clue. Mrs Thatchers favourite for the leadership battle was another one too.
They were in favour of big businesses and could implement a few conservative policies under the guise of being a Labour government. Worked for a while until the Iraq war!

If you look at the stats there’s a big difference between the mortality rates for different ethnic and income groups, if this is due in part to poverty why are the Bangladeshi population at the lower end of the morbidity table by numbers per thousand?to my limited knowledge this group are not among the more affluent or healthy. Can anyone explain this.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that anyone is surprised. Many risk factors are related to issues of deprivation and poverty.

Posv class in suburban areas and over 70. 4 recovered (all women) 1 died (male).

Don’t know what happened there! Meant to say of the five cases I know personally, all middle class in suburban area and over 70, women all survived, male didn’t.

Sorry if these points had been made already..

I like very close to Newham which is one of the most affected areas in the country. It also has the highest TB rate in the country I believe so it's not necessarily an entirely covid specific thing.

There is a lot of shared, cramped, housing. Many people still having to work and using public transport. Low income families unable to do a big tesco order every few weeks but having to go out to shops every few day. Also (and I think this is a big one) lots of multi- generational housing.. so grandparents living with adults who are still going out to work and not enough space to isolate from them.. I can see why that would cause high mortality, sadly

I've just checked the official site and so glad to see their are no deaths in the local area. Wouldn't describe it as affluent or deprived just sparsely populated.

Newham which is one of the most affected areas in the country

We don't know of course how much religious practice has played a part in spreading the virus in some areas. In South Korea a large cluster outbreak (hundreds of cases) was linked to a Christian group - Newham is served by one of the largest mosques in Western Europe;

www.mylondon.news/news/east-london-news/london-coronavirus-whitechapel-mosque-cancels-17952649

@Alsohuman council flats are often bigger especially if they were built before 1980. Social housing built after that is a complete mixture but some are still bigger than private properties.

The problem is that the council tenants, private tenants in ex-council housing, and social housing association tenants are frequently overcrowded.

So in a completely private block of one bedroom flats it would just normally contain one or two people. They would often have a larger home or somewhere else they could go e.g. parents homes in this kind of situation.

In a one bedroom council/housing association flat there could easily be two parents and 3+ children. (One BBC London report showed 6 children plus 2 adults in a one bed council flat. ) In an ex-council flat there could be 4 adults as the living room would be turned into a bedroom. In an ex-council house there could be even more adults.

@Clavinova if you look at the other areas in London with high incidents there are other religious communities there.

I should add certain Christian groups are included in this. I know people who saw them carrying on as normal when this pandemic was announced. Luckily they tend to hire their halls so they could be more easily stopped.

How many more people are catching Covid? This could be due to housing, work, use of public transport, different levels of adherence to lockdown

How many more of those who catch Covid die of it? This could reflect underlying health problems which can be both a cause of poverty and caused by it.

I think if any sense is to be made of the difference then these two factors need to be separated out.

Life expectancy varies hugely. For men - who die from C19 at a disproportionate rate - it varies from around 71 in Glasgow to around 82 in outer London. So considering that C19 also disproportionately kills the old rather than the young, the statistics will of course vary hugely. Even more telling is healthy life expectancy, which for men in the same areas varies between 53 and 72.
We all know of course of the correlation between poverty and obesity, and in turn the significance of obesity, and some of its related health issues, as a factor in Covid-related mortality.
Healthy life expectancy is a key issue that we have ignored for far too long because it is more intractable and requires far more nuanced solutions than just expecting the NHS to keep people alive for as long as possible with reactive health care.

BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup
I should add certain Christian groups are included in this.

Yes, I mentioned the Christian group in South Korea.The East London Mosque claims to have up to 10,000 people praying in one day under normal circumstances - which should obviously be taken into consideration if trying to establish a link to coronavirus in specific areas.