Death rates vastly different in more affluent areas

[Rainycloudyday]

Sorry if there has already been a thread on this. News today shows the shocking difference in death rates in more and less affluent areas. I’m not at all surprised sadly. On here I’m always surprised when people talk of knowing multiple people who have died. I live in a reasonably comfortable middle class area I suppose, and am from that background, and (touch wood) don’t personally know anyone who has passed away or been in hospital from Covid. For people who have lost several people around them, friends, neighbours etc. are you in more or less affluent areas?

Yes agree with Herc’s post

‘It's not being poor that makes you more likely to die. It's all the other factors that come with being poor. Smaller/cramped housing, higher obesity rates, worse diet, more multi generation households, more likely to use public transport, less likely to be able to WFH‘

@WorraLiberty yes I imagine plenty of the affluent London skyscraper residents have at least one other ‘country’ pad to go to, or parents with somewhere like that. And there just won’t be the same numbers of people using lifts at the same time due to lower densities.

But it’s interesting, I do wonder if there will be a swing towards moving out of London, more space and fresh air etc (for those who have the choice of course) after this especially as wfh becomes more the norm..

Even with money London just doesn’t seem like a healthy place to live at the moment more then ever.

Rainy, in what way re London?

An article I read the other day suggested that a lot of companies might close their London offices following the success of wfh, leading to people moving out of London into bigger houses with gardens. It seems pretty plausible.

"London just doesn’t seem like a healthy place to live at the moment more then ever."

Much less pollution now. You'd think it was healthier.

Oh, surprise, surprise.
Of course nobody will give a shit about poor people dying although they'll all wring their hands and pretend to care. Austerity killed tens of thousands and everybody cheered when the party who orchestrated it was voted in again.

Those bloody council house kids, eh?

The poorer are only going to get poorer.

They don't have to though, this isn't inevitable, government can do something about that if they choose to. We have made a political choice to let people become so poor and the gap widen so much. The UK government has been complicit in this.

www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2019/09/tackling-global-tax-havens-shaxon.htm

A little piece from the IMF publication above.

As a general rule, the wealthier the individual and the larger the multinational corporation—some have hundreds of subsidiaries offshore—the more deeply they are embedded in the offshore system and the more vigorously they defend it. Powerful governments also have a stake; most major havens are located in advanced economies or their territories. The Tax Justice Network’s Corporate Tax Haven Index ranks the top three as the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, and the Cayman Islands—all British overseas territories.

Our government vigorously defends tax avoidance (many tax avoiding companies and individuals are large Tory donors) with the support of tax avoiding media giants. Many people believe this was the real reason behind Brexit to avoid EU tax avoidance laws coming down the track.

It's not a surprise at all, apart from I suppose when it first started, politicians (loads before Johnson), slebs - Tom Hanks, Idris Elba, the very wealthy, Prince Charles, etc were getting it, presumably because of high rates of sociability, mobility and travel, which led people into thinking anyone could get it, that it was a 'great leveller.' Except it transpires it's not.

Austerity killed tens of thousands and everybody cheered when the party who orchestrated it was voted in again.

Not quite everybody.

How is a council tower block different to the luxury apartment blocks that have gone up all over London, at the side of the Thames for example

The owners of a luxury apartment block wont be threatened over a gas safety check, lied to that the engineer will wear PPE and then have him turn up in t shirt and joggers.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/yhn-pregnant-coronavirus-lockdown-engineer-18108795

Its poorer communities being more affected despite them not being the ones who kept going on ski trips AFTER the virus was a well known fact

Despite them not being the ones who were continuing to board cruise ships AFTER the virus was a well known fact
Ditto second homes

And trotting off to their second homes. But you know it's those kids from the estate who are to blame.

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than population density. Yes, old people get it and die but so do a lot of other people. My sister is a nurse and she attests that the majority of her patients are middle aged. I wonder a lot about lifestyle factors, diet and overall health.

I live in a poor area . Ne. But we haven’t had many deaths , about 40 in a town of 90,000
I regularly look in the obituary column and you’re Hard pressed to find anyone under 65.
I’d say most were 80 plus

@KenDodd please don’t assume I voted or cheered for the Tories coming in. I did neither.

The poor are the most affected with all illnesses. Bad diet, more smoking/drinking, poor access to healthcare, less able to wfh, etc, etc.
Horrible obviously but not shocking.

It may be that a second wave of the virus will tell a slightly different story. You would expect more immunity to a second wave in a community that has had more of the virus circulating - and conversely less immunity where everyone has been sheltering with no exposure at all in the hope of a vaccine.

When the Spanish flu came back a second time, it has morphed into a much more virulent and deadly strain.

I've seen differences in health within my friendship group. Some of my less affluent friends have made poor health choices. The choices are not due to lack of money. Friends in professional jobs tend to read about health news including Covid and make healthy choices. Less affluent friends posted photos on social media the night before lockdown doing the opposite of social distancing. These friends aren't easily going to get the social distancing messages. In the past they've described poor health choices, for example believing adverts that claim food is healthy when it is quite the opposite. It is also harder for the messages to be credible to people from a different culture (I don't tend to listen to health messages from other cultures than my own either).
I'm going to be flamed for this I know but this is where public health messages go wrong. They are designed to appeal to white middle class people. The messaging tends not to appeal to or reach people who are BAME or economically more deprived.

Plenty of poorer people are perfectly aware of how to lead a healthy lifestyle. It's lack of money that prevents them from doing so. I'm surprised Izzydigne if these "stupid poor" people are in your friendship group that they're not influenced by you and the other "clever rich" members of that group. If they're easily influenced by adverts you'd expect them to be even more influenced by their friends. Different cultures? Many from the BAME community are doctors and nurses. They understand very well how to be healthy. In any event the diets and lifestyles of some other cultures are healthier than ours. I don't think you can generalise.

Izzi it wasnt poorer people going on ski trips and getting on cruise ships after the virus had already been well publicised.

In this case its not going to be so easy to blame it on poorer communities Who didnt bring this shit into the country to start with.

The 2008 rhetoric wont work this time.

I live in social housing and have read up a lot about this virus.

A lot of people who work in healthcare are low paid and the ones helping to save your butt now.

They dont get proper breaks and sometimes have to eat on the run. And not always healthily because of lack of time.

You should get flamed for that izzy. Because it makes you feel like you are doing Corona right while the poor are doing it wrong.

So the fact that poor people often live in overcrowded conditions(often damp and mouldy which does wonders for the lungs), higher density, vulnerable because of illnesses and disability (mental or physical), the fact that they are more likely to be the ones having key worker/necessary jobs , being exposed to a high viral load , often without PPE has nothing to do with it?

Just the fact that simply they're not smart,educated or well read enough to make better choices?