What will be the 'new normal' for schools?

[Springhere]

I know it could be a long while before schools reopen, but it's inevitable that things will be far from normal when they do. What do you think the major changes will be?

www.tes.com/news/coronanvirus-reopened-schools-show-new-normal

Radical idea....seeing as social distancing in schools isnt feasible, and I can't see how staggered starts etc really makes any meaningful difference to risk of infection, open them completely as normal but with any teachers in at risk group put on full paid sick leave indefintely. Temperature of kids/teachers taken on entry.
Or keep things as they are. All the interim options seem crazy and don't help people get back to work or kids to get a normal education.

Tokyo, you'd be surprised. I sense a gathering momentum in favour of 'just getting schools open, already!' and I think we'll be back in, with minimal guidance, support and resources much sooner than feels safe. Already, the narrative around children's role in transmission is being tweaked to support an imminent return.
I so hope I'm wrong.

*Don’t think you understand how secondary schools work. The younger ones are split into groups for maths and English, science etc so the teacher can’t ‘move between’

The GCSE student have completely different lessons/subjects and again streamed.*

Yeah, I was thinking early secondary really, prior to streaming. A local school did this for some months when they were doing work to remove asbestos. It was a small school, so maybe an oversimplification. However, even for older students, in a registration class at any time there were only a small number of potential classes a pupil could be in, so it was possible to cut the movement in the corridors right down with careful logistics.

If a year group normally splits into various streams for e.g. maths, english, etc, then there is no reason that one maths teacher can't cover the mix of streams in a single class, especially if class sizes are smaller. Once you get to exam years, it does fall down a bit.

Unlikely a teacher could stretch that far over one class.

Some kids with learning disabilities need a lot more time and attention, others can get on with it, however they often lack support when the teacher is busy with lower abilities.

I can’t see it being possible

I've been looking at the measures taken in the other countries and, at most, I could have 7 students in my form room, but I also couldn't move around at that point and certainly not get to my whiteboard from my computer. My form has 32 kids, and we have 14 or 15 sets in each year with a significant variation in ability, so we can't teach in form groups. Plus, I wouldn't want a non science teacher in my lab because of all the equipment; we'd have to empty the rooms first. I honestly don't know how we would do it in my school with the layout and logistics; we already have to do a split lunch, limited outdoor space and most of our kids using public bus services.

@reefedsail

...
What will happen is that schools will be directed to open 'with appropriate social distancing measures' in place. Zero guidance will be given as to how this should be done and decisions will be left to individual schools.

Cue 8000 threads per day on MN.....
It's ridiculous that my child is in every other week.
It's ridiculous that my child is doing half days.
It's ridiculous that my KS2 child is in Mon/ Wed but my KS1 child is in Tue/Thur.
It's ridiculous that my DSs teacher says she can't send work home now, she only has 10 children in per day.

This is exactly what I can see happening!!

Also

My Molly said that Alfie coughed on her on purpose and he didn’t get sent home, I’m fuming! (MN: that’s terrible-ring the head/papers/Ofsted)

My Molly said that the teacher isn’t enforcing the 2m rule (MN: repeat ad nauseum)

My Molly said that the teacher is refusing to help her with her work as she can’t get too close.

My Molly said that they are only doing maths and English and haven’t done any other subjects! And they have to stand still at playtimes-it’s disgusting. She also says that there won’t be a leavers assembly or party or disco-it’s dreadful.

My Molly says that someone touched her plate at lunchtime and said they’d given her Corona and now she’s got a phobia of eating-I’m not having it.

I can’t wait.

I also think it is twisted as
I assume they dont say how many under 20s are confirmed and how many in hospital and icu every day.
They dont say x country going back with masks, 10 to a class.
Nm story said 5w off when its 3.

Q is is the inflamatiory condition a spanner in the gov plans. Would they have told us about it?

Aside from transport i imagine there are quite a few empty halls/pubs/restaurant/library/ church/football etc that schools could use.

Really highlighting this is a country for the rich.
People expected to work till 68 (who said over 60 vulnerable).
Schools overcrowded

Whatever happens, school staff won’t have PPE, I’m pretty sure of it. There was government guidance saying it wouldn’t happen - whether that applied to now or when schools go back I think it will be the same.
In terms of social distancing they cannot have a class of 30 children in. Fuck knows what they’ll do instead. I don’t think it’ll be normal schooling in September but hopefully as close to normal as possible. I’m not convinced we’ll be back before then but I really hope we are.

I’m Starting to think that socially distancing in schools will cause far more problems than schools opening will solve. No wonder the government don’t know what to do!

@Letseatgrandma and @reefedsail

This x10000000.

I'm in Primary and would prefer a split of classes into 2, a 2 week timetable a week in and a week off option.

Parents with siblings across the school would have their children in on the same week.

Set A work at school Mon-Fri, we close at 2pm on a Friday and the school is deep cleaned from 2-6pm with the weekend there to allow time for surfaces which might not have been cleaned to remain unused for more than 48hrs.

Set B work online at home Mon-Fri with some support from those teachers who will inevitably have to continue to shield due to being vulnerable and no vaccine available. They rightly continue to be paid as they are off through no fault of their own.

No social distancing in EYFS as the children need to learn through play and exploration. We remind them as much as possible to wash hands and cover coughs and sneezes but I don't think it's fair to very young children to be forced to sit at desks as no real meaningful learning will take place.

Gov will say it's up to headteachers to organise.

Even with the best, most strategic thinking slt, it will be a fucking mess.

There won't be enough time to actually sort things properly. Kids won't be being taught properly. Yes, they're suffering at home, but what if their mates are in on different days? Or different lunches? Their concentration levels will be a combination on last week.of Xmas term and last week.of summer term.

@Keepdistance you have to fully staff those halls and ensure they have appropriate technology so potentially whiteboards, access to computers/tablets etc and WiFi. We are now teaching in a technological world and need to ensure that still takes place and we are teaching our children those skills as they will be vital later
I'm in life.

Community spaces are at a premium and I'd imagine lots of schools all clambering to be in the same space which poses difficulties and also you would need a senior leader on each school site and a designated safeguarding lead on site at all times too.

@Letseatgrandma That did make me smile, it is so true. The potential for outraged Mumsnetters threads is endless.

My Y11 DD is going back to school full time here in Sydney on 11 May. The whole school can go back if they want to, they are expecting around 80% to return (YK-12). There is a lot of controversy here because Public school students get one day a week back at school to start and private schools can do what they want. DD's school is private so she is one of the lucky ones but I think it is a shocking inequity, especially for Y12 (major exam year). Our government has said that social distancing rules won't apply in classrooms. BUT we get a daily update from the school outlining the measures they are putting in place to keep staff and students safe which I am satisfied with and the Campus is absolutely huge with a lot of outdoor space so they are not exactly crammed together. There have been a total of 90 deaths in the whole of Australia as of this evening with 20 of those being in care homes and proBably another 30 or so linked to the Cruise ship fiasco so we are obviously in a different place to the UK.

I guess we await further modelling. It's useless ignoring the fact that most people are going to get this. There is no "fair" way to address it or sort it. Isolate/shield the vulnerable and gradually let kids go back to school as normal. Every solution has losers.

Yes, they're suffering at home, but what if their mates are in on different days? Or different lunches?

Ooh, another thing some parents won’t be happy about-‘Molly isn’t sleeping at night now (because of the coughing on the plate incident) and only wants to come in on week B when Milly and Polly and Lily are in!’

Nothing OP. They just need to open schools and crack on. You can’t social distance in schools. Children are not at risk of coronavirus nor are they proven spreaders.

Vulnerable teachers will have to stay at home. Vulnerable families will make their own decision.

They just need to open schools and crack on. You can’t social distance in schools

I am fairly sure that won’t be happening-not until September anyway. I can’t see our government deciding unilaterally to be the only country with a death rate in the top 5 in the world to just say, ‘fuck it!’

I'm teacher and e mailed our Head who is excellent, really in the ball with everything. I asked if i should be re jigging planning to include tasks that adhere to social distancing. Thinking about a pot of equipment per desk etc... discussed whether we'd have a rolling breaktime/lunch provision.

I was really surprised when he advised to just plan for normal school! He said when we know more we can then adapt and he doesn't want to second guess the govt response!

So if schools re open and social distancing has to be put into place (which listening to Chris Witty will be the case into 2021) schools then need time to sort out that logistical nightmare. From staffing to finding space, to installing more sinks/hand sanitising bays etc.

I really think a completely 'new normal' can happen in schools. It will be hugely hard to organise though and take a lot of adapting from staff, students and parents.

maybe all the education can turn online till covid controlled.
its impossible to control distance socially at schools.

Agree with @SpokeTooSoon there's no way on Earth schools can socially distance properly in this country. Schools will go back as they were just with more hygiene and hand washing measures.

My son's Asd special school is still open with about 2/3 now in. They social distance the individual classes but within classes it is as normal. No ppe as it would frighten or get pulled off.

Even having 1/2 the kids in at a time they’d need to clean between groups. I dunno what everyone else’s school is like but mine isn’t clean great to start off with. And where are they getting the extra cleaners to clean properly twice a day?

I live in Germany and schools have started returning in stages

First classes to come back to school are:

. 4th grades (final class of primary school),
. 9th grade at Hauptschule, 10th grade at Realschule (both are the final years of secondary non-grammar)
. 12th and 13th grade at grammar schools (exams in the next year or so)

If all goes well, then the remaining grades will return in stages

Class sizes have been reduced to about 10 mostly by splitting into shifts with half at school and half onlie, then swapping back
e.g. half of the classes in the mornings, other half in the afternoons, or on alternate days

In Germany, there is not normally a drop-off / pick-off crowd

• school starts age 6 and kids have always been expected to go to school on their own, on foot or by bus

This video shows one secondary school returning
Masks are optional for kids & staff

Each child is greeted at the school door and reminded:
. Wash hands first
. Only one person in the loos at a time
. Keep your distance at all times from everyone

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/coronavirus-maskenpflicht-schulen-aenderungen-100.html

Children are not at risk of coronavirus nor are they proven spreaders.

This isn't as clear cut as you make it sound. Children do catch CV19. Some have been very ill with it. There appears to be a possibility of a new linked illness in some children.
We don't know if children will spread it amongst other children and staff, for sure.

This is why even where some countries - who are ahead of us - are starting to relax restrictions aren't just reopening schools. Some are starting to let some children in - like we've been doing from the start. Some are restricting class sizes to 10 or 15, classroom size permitting, some are doing part time, some are only allowing even smaller classes only if the region has low infection rates, some have said they won't open til September.

So why do you think you know better than the other countries and their experts?

Also - staff, by which I don't just been teachers. I mean all school staff fro, management to teachers and TAs to office and admin to caretakers and cleaners and to lunch time staff, etc.

Which staff are you going to class as vulnerable?
The shielding group?
And what about the original at risk? Those eligible for a flu vaccine each year, those who are older or pregnant?

I can't wait to be back teaching. If nothing else I will have more time to myself. I am working longer hours than ever before whilst at home, doing a totally different type of job than when I'm at school. I am looking forward to seeing the children rather than communicating via a learning platform with notes and pictures. I'm looking forward to not having to wear a wrist and thumb strap because the amount of computer work I'm doing from 8am to whatever time in the evening has made my arthritis worse.

But at the same time I'm concerned. I'm not in the shielding group - I score 2 points and it's 3 points for shielding. So do I just have to risk it and hope for the best?

Which staff are you going to class as vulnerable?
The shielding group? And what about the original at risk? Those eligible for a flu vaccine each year, those who are older or pregnant?

I think this area has a huge question mark hanging over it.

If they open schools and don’t make shielding people or the original vulnerable group come in-I doubt schools can safely open.

If they tell the shielding people to stay at home (for how long?) what do we do about replacing them?

What about the vulnerable group? Are they forced to come in? Will there be a rush of them going to the doctor too worried to return?