The “I just had a sit down in the park with crisps” brigade

[Candodad]

You are the problem. The rules are simple. Go out and exercise and then go home. Just that, nothing more than that.

To be fair then problem is actually bigger than that and has been brewing for years as we increasingly become a country with rules but almost everyone has an excuse for why that rule shouldn’t apply to them/their child/family.

Willow2017

Not a character assassination? You've called me dim, stupid and unable to comprehend and through in bitching for good measure.

Another poster has just shown me the proof of what I suspected - that experts believe it is airborne, so that's answered my question.

No, they can't guarantee that it's not airborne. That isn't the same thing.

Hooves - as you said you are in the shielding group and work in a supermarket - what do you intend to do when they stop paying you full pay? No job is going to pay you to stay at home for a year or longer.

It must be worrying for you, your frustration and anxiety is clearly coming across in your posts.

I'm asking what is the danger I am facing simply in leaving my home?

You don't know that?

If you leave your home, you increase the risk of catching it.

How much that risk increases, can not be worked out. Because of thousands of variables. The increase could be minute or huge.

Depending on the thousand of variables. No one can give you figures.

Your risk of needing hospital care, is higher than people not on the shielding list. But again, lots of variables means no one can tell you what that risk is increased by.

You need to look at whatever you plan to do and assess the risk. Is it an acceptable risk, does the risk outweigh the benefits.

Like pps friend with CF. My cousin also has it and, again has decided the the risk of exercising early morning or late evening, when they won't see anyone is far less than what happens if she doesn't continue exercising.

My cousin has looked at herself, looked at the information and advice given and made a decision for herself.

Thats what you need to do.

Its odd that you can't get your head round the fact, that you need to do this for yourself.

Its just a diversion tactic, so you can make out you are being forced to stay in.

Fuck sake Hooves. I'm not sure what you're not getting.

My Step-Mum is in the shielded group. She has to go to hospital to have dialysis three times a week.

Completely covered in the 'shielded guidance'. So no, not just 'don't leave your house'.

Why on earth would you think the guidelines would be saying that someone at far greater risk than you, can leave their home to go into a hospital (big risk) 3 times a week?

Clearly the risk to her posed by COVID is less than the risk of her not receiving necessary medical treatment.

Not telling her she can't leave the house ever.

3 people on her dialysis unit tested positive. All recovered including one elderly man with multiple underlying conditions. Will everyone recover like him? No. But that doesn't also mean that if you need to shield and you leave the house, you'll probably die.

So stop with all this 'why can I not go outside if I don't meet people, is it in the air' BS. You CAN go out. Hundreds of thousands in the shielding group are. There's no evidence you'll catch it from the air or by someone unconnected to you sitting on a bench even if they do eat a packet of crisps.

The shielding guidance is designed to not have a lot of already ill people catch COVID at once. Most people understand that apart from you apparently. They're trying to reduce the incidence of very vulnerable getting it at the same time who may need hospital treatment - though you may not equally.

And that's it. Not saying you'll die if you catch it, or that going outside will make you catch it, or that people sitting on a bench will put you at risk.

You should probably keep your windows shut in case the virus floats in...

Hooves
No i said you cannot be that dim as i dont believe you are you are just using the "I dont undetstand" line over and over despite explainations to keep the thread about you.

Btw i did reply to you on the other thread about the Morrisons vulnerable delivery situation. Did you see it?

I'm assuming Hooves you are a grown-up woman. Why do you need somebody to decide whether you can go out or not. Given all the information you can access on various sites, even the Governments site, why are you so unable to make an informed choice given your personal circumstances and allow others to do the same. We all know the risks involved when we choose whether or not we go out for whatever exercise is deemed worthy today, why can you not grasp that? Or is it your intention to be deliberately goady (I'm starting to suspect it is).

that experts believe it is airborne, so that's answered my question.
Thats not what they are saying at all!

Hooves, the risk is people as people spread the virus. That said, the government’s own publication suggests you’d need close sustained contact for 15 minutes with an infected person at a distance of 2 metres or less.

Another poster has just shown me the proof of what I suspected - that experts believe it is airborne, so that's answered my question

No one has given you any proof. They’ve given a hypothesis.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras - you can't always avoid people, some really won't keep to a 2m distance and you can get trapped by a wall where you haven't got space to move away from them. If you share a door or touch a gate then you increase your risk slightly also. It also keeps the actions clear for employers; you aren't to be expected to leave the house for work. That's why they advise that you don't go out. You might decide your area is quiet enough at some times of day to take a walk with rigorous hand washing, ideally adding a mask and hand gel just in case. Or you might not. It's just advice, take it or leave it.

Covid droplets have a lot more weight than airborne measles, physics says they have to fall after a certain amount of time, but if you're in range you could be infected (the specific distance may be open to debate, you might think 2m isn't far enough given that you're shielding, but it probably is). If you do decide to go out, I recommend that you walk by the side of the road so you can go out into the road if needed to pass people, it's safer than getting boxed in by someone who doesn't keep far enough away. Keep enough distance, don't touch anything, wash your hands when you get home and definitely don't lick benches nor pavements.

Btw i did reply to you on the other thread about the Morrisons vulnerable delivery situation. Did you see it?

No I didn't. I'll have a look now.

willow not getting into another argument but this is taken from that article

In the mind of scientists working on this, there’s absolutely no doubt that the virus spreads in the air,” says aerosol scientist Lidia Morawska at the Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, Australia. “This is a no-brainer.”

^ in which case it doesn’t matter whether us non shielding people eat crisps on a park bench anyway does it? We’re going to catch it anyway just leaving our houses.

Spreading through air actually means nothing. If someone with covid sneezes on you, itsvtravelking through air.

The doesnt mean it lingers, for prolonged periods, in the air or can blow in through a window.

That's the dispute.

Given all the information you can access on various sites, even the Governments site, why are you so unable to make an informed choice given your personal circumstances and allow others to do the same.

Because that information isn't there. The shielding letter says

The safest course of action is for you to stay at home at all times and avoid face to face contact for at least twelve weeks from today, except from carers and healthcare workers who you must see as part of your medical care

That is not giving me information, it is giving me instruction.

No its saying the safest course of action.

It does not say you must. Its advising you the safest course of action, what you do with that information is up to you.

Besides which, you said you wanted to know the risk before going out.

Why would you want to know the risk, if you believe the government has told you, you can't go out

Spreads through the air and is airborne are two completely different things.

Logically, if it was airborne, we would have much more cases,lockdown or not. Whole cities worth of cases. While the numbers seem very high and scary, they indicate direct contact spread ,rather than it being airborne.

Shitsgettingcrazy

I want to know where the danger is, not a numerical value.

Saying " stay at home" doesn't give you information to figure out the danger does it?

If I was told it's to avoid people then I might decide to go out at 5 am when I know no one is around. But it might be because I'm on medication that means I have to stay out of the sunlight (which I am) in which case I can go out when I want but need to be covered? Do you understand now? The reason for the instruction matters if you want to know how to still be safe but increase your freedom.

I am not the only one to point out that there is no scientific proof that its airborne. You havent replied to anyone else
!
Anyway i hope you can find something to take your mind of this obsession for 'answers' its really not healthy.
You need to take responsibility for your own decisions just like the rest of us on the shielding lists. There is no one answer fits all. You just do whats best for you. For me thats working for you it may be staying at home or going for a walk early mornings or late pm when its quiet. Everyone is different. Dont drive yourself crazy over thinking things because nobody has the definitive answer for you no matter how many times you ask.

Hope you find a way to make peace with your situation.

How can you be on the shielding list but working in a supermarket?

If I was told it's to avoid people then I might decide to go out at 5 am when I know no one is around. But it might be because I'm on medication that means I have to stay out of the sunlight (which I am) in which case I can go out when I want but need to be covered? you understand now? The reason for the instruction matters if you want to know how to still be safe but increase your freedom.

The information is clear.

The risk of catchkng comes from being too close to others or, possibly picking it up from surfaces if touched quite quickly after someone carrying covid has touched it.

There's no secret in that.

If your medication means you can't go out in the sunlight, before this. You weren't going out anyway. So what's your issue?

Why the hell would it be down to your medication.

I don't know you. But even I know, its because you have a plethora of health issues. Those health issues, mean you immune system is compromised. Isn't one an auto immune disorder?

Which of them puts you at risk, doesn't matter. You have several.

You could just go out, cover yourself up (since you have to anyway due to medication) and stay away from people.

How can you be on the shielding list but working in a supermarket?

My mum is on the shielding list and dad works in the nhs.

A woman on my team is sheilding but wants to return to work. She is being removed as the gp agrees its not required.

Last week had to leave house with dd while it was fumigated for pests. I have underlying health issues. First time I left house for 5 weeks and wish I hadn't needed to. DD was hungry while out so we stopped in park for snack, away from others. Blanket judgement is not useful op. Anyway you could channel your anger into something productive?