Government reportedly considering schools going back in 3 weeks

[FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue]

On BBC News 24 now, article in tomorrow's Sunday Times says that ministers are considering schools going back in three weeks time. Plus allowing some shops and social gatherings, but not pubs and clubs.

Economy versus live - lives every time for me, and I hope every morally correct person out there.

Economy versus live

they are inextricably linked though it's not either or

Have any teachers died? Thinking about the fact schools are still open & children attending will be extra "exposed" as parents are key workers you would think sadly there would be some deaths. Are children less likely to transmit it?

They'd need to protect under 40s with underlying conditions if they start easing lockdown by age. We really need to start by focusing on getting accurate tests and advance ordering (lessons learned from the lack of PPE, ventilators, etc) the antivirals currently showing promise.

Abuse situations? The victims will be at as much risk from Covid as anyone else.The government could do what other countries have done. Put victims up in hotels and holiday homes. Ask those who signed up to volunteer to help transport them. It's not an excuse to end lockdown prematurely.

Tonemeth-you are right, nothing is straightforward with this. I think many will have to take decisions into their own hands for what suits their families individual needs when they do reopen.

There isn’t one perfect solution to any of this sadly.

I’m confused at the idea of teachers deciding whether or not they would work, if schools were reopened. Since when did anyone get a choice to work, unless they were certified unwell or taking holiday/unpaid leave?

It is a fair point. I will resign. I am not risking my child’s health. Or that of elderly relatives. There is no where for them to go. I can’t lose my 10 year old, I have been too close to that before. I won’t cope, not if I lose him.

But mainly, it is clear social distancing will be key long term and we can’t do that in school. We can’t even pretend to do it. It’s just not possible. Many teachers are themselves high risk or need shielding. Staffing numbers will unlikely be safe (meaning 40 kids + in a space not big enough to sit 30 close together). Schools can’t afford the supply staff let alone actually secure the supply staff to help out. Number ratios set by the likes of Ofsted will be broken. We will end up having to teach in school and online for those unable to be in school - workload doubled. We will die in significant numbers because we will be exposed and there won’t be any PPE for us at all. The article suggests years 10 and 12 will be caught up over the summer. What do teachers with young children do about that? Where will safe childcare be found? Grandparents? Let alone the cost of that because teachers are not paid for holidays (and believe me, there is little good will left). Many teachers will have been seriously ill themselves, still more will be grieving. We will have to manage grief and fear in children without resources or actual trained people to support us.

I think we understand we need to get back to normal as quickly as possible from an economic perspective. That doesn’t make it the correct social option. The burden will fall disproportionately on an education sector that has been under valued and under funded for years and years. There aren’t enough of us already. There will be even less after this and those who are left will be young and, for the most part, inexperienced. None of it is good for long term economic growth. We need time as a nation to heal, even just superficially. We need to work out how we can educate and keep everyone as safe as possible (that includes the health sector) and take some knocks to the system and accept - just as we have this year - that the system may need to shift a bit to deal with this. Kids who are safe and healthy and happy will learn. Any gaps will be filled. But not if we are in and out of lockdown and more and more people are, inevitably, affected by death.

You want us to acknowledge that the NHS has been underfunded for years and that there is a corresponding impact on death stats? You want us to recognise you as professionals who understand what equipment you need and in what quantities? Then please show us the same courtesy. Help us work out social distancing because that is he key to getting us up and running again.

Have any teachers died?

Yes.

If the schools went back it would mean packed trains and buses at rush hour again which is what they government were trying to keep a lid on .

@cauliflowersqueeze
Brilliant post. Thank you.

@Howaboutanewname I just googled and found 3 sadly. I am surprised it's not more though considering that schools are still open. I was wondering if transmission is different in children.

It would be a high risk strategy to reopen schools that soon, and one I would not support.

We've had 888 hospital Covid-19 deaths in the last 24 hours, making over 15,464 deaths, plus up to 7,500 deaths in care homes making 22,964 deaths, plus those who have died at home. It seems we have a crisis in the availability and accuracy of testing and availability of PPE, and a vaccine is some time away. We still don't know enough about this virus, even to be able to say that immunity is possible. I really cannot see how we can open schools beyond for vulnerable children and those of keyworkers as things stand - and for some considerable time.

What Professor Anthony Costello, (until recently WHO), had to say on likely UK deaths, what is needed to crush the pandemic and the failings of our government's strategy so far, is as interesting as it is concerning.

They're trying to gauge public opinion possibly so they can push back against Keir Starmer asking for a plan to lift lockdown.

I wouldn't send DS back. Looking at our curve, etc, there is absolutely no reason to re-open schools atm.

I also don't believe they seriously intend to open in 3 weeks. Our school is furloughing staff. They wouldn't be doing that if they thought schools were going to open in 3 weeks.

If they decide to just send one or two year groups back and any of children fall into those years. They will not be going back Guinea pigs .

I would love to go back to school soon and I’m positive that no decision to send us back will be made until the science says it’s ok.

Everyone knows that children can’t social distance, so it’ll be when the reality is that social distancing is no longer that important...preferable perhaps...but not as important.

I think it’ll be the first steps to getting back to normal and I’ll be able to go out more and go visit my family! I work in a school (which my nephew goes to) and some family members work there in admin too. We’ll all be mixing with the same families, so no problem visiting each others houses or meeting at the park from that point on I’d imagine! I’d be happy to be free again!

I would see opening schools as the beginning of the end, which is great and hopefully if it’s as soon as May! holidays might just be going ahead for the summer!

So I would REALLY welcome May 11th. I think there’s A LOT to do by then, but if the newspapers say there’s a chance and it’s been hinted at by some ‘ministers’, then fabulous!

I’m positive that no decision to send us back will be made until the science says it’s ok
Why would you think that? Our government hasn't followed the advice from the WHO scientists so far. They've also failed to consistently follow the advice from their own scientists. They were told to order PPE. They were warned by their own scientists that the pandemic was coming and they ignored those warnings. There's a sobering article in The Times about how little the government has heeded scientists in its decision-making.

I absolutely despair at how desensitised people are becoming to what’s going on. We have nearly 900 people a day DYING, not to mention those seriously ill but that’s not enough to keep schools closed? FFS if it were 900 a day under any other circumstances someone would have set off the nukes.

Most of these caught it either when schools were still open or within a week or so of them closing. At the time people were crying out for action and now they want to know when the govt is going to make it all go away? How many unnecessary deaths is ok, 400, 500?? Really?? And it’s ok for kids to be losing parents just so we can keep the economy going and protect the over 70s who will be staying home? Fuck. Off. Every life matters.

Yes there are complications to being at home, but it would be a total shit show if they went back. People would still have to stay home if they were shielding or suspected of being found someone with symptoms (but we will never know because we don’t test so how many times will that have to happen). So you can imagine half the staff off, many because they don’t want to come in, plus loads of kids. There will be no way to guarantee everyone learning, most of them will be sat watching movies whilst teachers all have emergency meetings trying to work out wtf to do if the weeks before lockdown are anything to go by.

Complete waste of more lives for what, a half arsed cobbled together few weeks where frankly the younger ones at least will probably just do sports day practise, maybe a summer play, and a few pictures. I could teach mine (primary) better at home and I’m working ft too as is DH.

I think the only option Pre sept is to continue distance learning until September with the option for more kids to do it in school under supervision if needed. Let those who want to stay home, that way no one loses out on learning just because their teacher(s) doesn’t come in. Make sure the resources reflect that not everyone will have access to a computer.

On another note if I see anymore posts from my in laws about how they’re merrily sunning themselves having the time of their life with bbqs and g&ts at 4pm I will explode. Some people don’t seem to realise the lengths we are all going to (and soon the RISKS we will be taking) just to keep them safe. I’m delighted some people think it entitles them to a big long holiday but if they could keep their I’m alright Jack musings to themselves that would be great.

It does NOT have to be this way, we are in no way comparable to Denmark. Our country fucked up by letting it get out of control and now even more people are expected to pay for that with their lives because we can’t afford the hit to the economy. Sod that.

I would love to go back to school soon and I’m positive that no decision to send us back will be made until the science says it’s ok.

You’re deluded. No country in the world has used “science” to suit its own agenda more than us.

They are considering lots of things. I've heard from a friend working in that policy that one thing being considered is some going back in June but it being staggered. However they don't know, it's all hypothetical. They have to consider different scenarios as it's unlikely schools will stay shut until a vaccine is developed. I do think when they do open for more (most are open now for some) it won't be the same as before for a very long time.

Y11 DD will be going back to school (Sydney) on 11 May, the first day of her Term 2 for this year. (I think the UK equivalent would be Y12). Her school has totally re-jigged the school year to maximise the opportunity for face to face teaching and has changed the usual Australian four term year to a three term year for 2020. Most schools here are looking at 2 weeks online learning from 27 April, then a staggered return from 11 May. The head teacher at her school has said they are expecting 70-80% of students (in a K-12 school) to return face to face. I am happy with that bearing in mind the death toll for the whole of Australia stood at 68 today. I will drive her and collect her though rather than have her take public transport.

@cauliflowersqueeze lots of people work in exactly these conditions, right now. I get that teachers are worried, but so am I every time I walk into work where social distancing is impossible! Same for DH, same for the people working in care homes, supermarkets, local shops, the Police etc. None of us have PPE, we just mitigate the risk as best we can with frequent hand washing, changing clothes and showering before coming into contact with the others in our households and socially distancing from others when not in work. There has been no lockdown for many of us, and nor will there be. I think teachers need to brace themselves for the fact that they will be going back to work without PPE and there won't be any choice afforded to them over it.

This thing isn’t entirely spread by children - despite what some posters would have you believe.
Indeed.
I am hoping we return on May 11th. Sure there will be some parents who refuse - they'll be the ones who bailed out early anyway- but whole country can't be held to ransom by a few.

@EveryLifeMatters We have nearly 900 people a day DYING, not to mention those seriously ill but that’s not enough to keep schools closed? FFS if it were 900 a day under any other circumstances someone would have set off the nukes.

You do realise c1600 people die on average per day in the U.K. pre Covid 19 and no nukes were being set off.

God forbid your in-laws try to make the best of a shit situation. Perhaps you should issue them with some guidelines on how exactly they should be behaving in their own home.

Economy versus live - lives every time for me, and I hope every morally correct person out there.

The economy IS lives. It has afforded those in the west a standard of living that has resulted in people living longer on average than they ever lived before.

Education is an instrinsic factor in this achievement. We must remember how this current cohort of children will be affected further down the line and their future life chances. It is already obvious from the difference in quality of remote provision between schools, that the attainment gap will widen and the choices of many young people from deprived backgrounds may be narrowed. A few months of poorer provision can be the difference between a syruggling but managing child scraping a C for uni entry and a D/E

A few more working hours cleared can be the difference bewteen a parent supplying some household essential or an extra 30 quid a week for a tutor for a child needing further support.

A balance must be found and no will be 100% happy.

That would be interesting staffing wise. If people are being told not to leave the house until their symptoms are gone, it makes me wonder if in a few weeks time we'd have enough staff to cover.
Then there are the staff who are vulnerable/ shielding...