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Government reportedly considering schools going back in 3 weeks

999 replies

FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue · 18/04/2020 23:38

On BBC News 24 now, article in tomorrow's Sunday Times says that ministers are considering schools going back in three weeks time. Plus allowing some shops and social gatherings, but not pubs and clubs.

OP posts:
PyongyangKipperbang · 19/04/2020 00:46

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis

Sorry.....:o

Mintychoc1 · 19/04/2020 00:50

I’m confused at the idea of teachers deciding whether or not they would work, if schools were reopened. Since when did anyone get a choice to work, unless they were certified unwell or taking holiday/unpaid leave ?

I’m a doctor and none of us really feel like working, but we have to. As do supermarket staff, bus drivers, shop assistants, pharmacists, police, fire service, ambulance crews, bin men, council workers, factory workers, delivery drivers, care home staff etc - the list goes on. All are risking contact with infected people as part of their job, because they won’t get paid if they don’t turn up! Why are teachers different?

penelopepitstopsgain · 19/04/2020 00:50

The single most significant factor (and failure to date) is that we do not have a plan or the means for large scale testing and contact tracing - until this is in place my children are going nowhere.

Mintychoc1 · 19/04/2020 00:50

Obviously I’m not including the people who are shielding - clearly they wouldn’t work

Mintychoc1 · 19/04/2020 00:52

penelope I assume you don’t work, and are able to home educate your kids, because otherwise you could be looking at a very long gap in their education.

Bubblebu · 19/04/2020 00:54

so the entire nation is at the finger click behest of both the NHS and the schools (at the behest of the government - apparently but who knows)

I hope this is remembered for a long long time.

penelopepitstopsgain · 19/04/2020 00:59

@ Mintychoc1 Large scale testing and contact tracing is what the WHO have recommended be in place before any lockdown be eased and other countries i.e. Germany have shown this needn't take years rather weeks BUT critically there needs to be both the will and skill which we seem to lack.

Moomin8 · 19/04/2020 01:00

From someone in education, I’ve heard that the plans are for children to go back the second half of the summer term.

PatriciaHolm · 19/04/2020 01:01

Buzzfeed has a longer article about what appears to be the same plan -

www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-lockdown-three-stage-exit-plan?utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bffbbuzzfeeduknews&ref=bffbbuzzfeeduknews

so someone is briefing the press on this, "unofficially".

Moomin8 · 19/04/2020 01:01

And I personally can’t HE (well enough) because I have a small baby.

noblegiraffe · 19/04/2020 01:07

someone is briefing the press on this, "unofficially".

Yep, the ‘economy over public safety’ lot.

Gigipixiz · 19/04/2020 01:07

My issue would be if we re open schools there is little point in continuing social distancing?
I work in a large high school in one area my dd1 goes to another large high school in another area my dd2 goes to primary school in another area. My dh works in another school where we live. How would it be reasonable for us to go to all those schools but be expected to stay home and away from family and friends the rest of the time?

noblegiraffe · 19/04/2020 01:09

the ‘economy over public safety’ lot.

Or possible even worse the ‘liberty over public safety’ lot. The Toby Young’s.

SophieB100 · 19/04/2020 01:13

The key bit of the phrase used by Raab when he announced extension to lock down was 'at least'. At least 3 weeks. Today the scientist at the press briefing said, this lockdown would continue for "some weeks or months". Key word there - months.
Raab set out five key objectives in detail to softening lockdown. All of them will take a lot, lot longer than 3 weeks!
Schools won't reopen in 3 weeks, no way.

SpokeTooSoon · 19/04/2020 01:13

How would it be reasonable for us to go to all those schools but be expected to stay home and away from family and friends the rest of the time?

Because it still minimises the spread to a certain extent. This thing isn’t entirely spread by children - despite what some posters would have you believe.

gluteustothemaximus · 19/04/2020 01:14

Shame it's not year 9. We've had the virus so I'd like her to go back to school

Well, as long as you're OK Hmm

excitedmumtobe87 · 19/04/2020 01:15

There’ll be a lot of parents who won’t agree with this

They were the first to close. They should be the last to open

Social distancing is impossible

And many firms have literally just finished spending a fortune getting parents working from home.

For nothing?

Easilyanxious · 19/04/2020 01:19

I think other countries have started opening schools or are possibly soon . I think our government will watch what happens there very closely before making a decision and can't see them going back before May half term

Easilyanxious · 19/04/2020 01:24

Is t that date also roughly around when France said they may be looking to re open some schools ?
The thing is even going back in September it's unlikely it will have just disappeared but realistically how long can a country be in lockdown for ?

Babyroobs · 19/04/2020 01:29

I don't see how I could send my year 10 dd and year 12 ds back to school with a Dh who is in the 12 week shielding group. Either dh would need to rent a flat on his own somewhere so the other 5 family members can go back to school / college/ work or he risks his life?

noblegiraffe · 19/04/2020 01:30

It’s unsettling, isn’t it? Instead of science and evidence informing the government who broadcast their decisions using the media we have rogue ministers briefing the media to flag-fly their preferred outcome in order to influence public opinion and put pressure on the government to make decisions in their favour.

Shame on you Times for going along with it.

ToffeeYoghurt · 19/04/2020 01:32

Other countries went into lockdown sooner than us. France, like some other places, has had a much stricter lockdown. In Denmark schools have started to reopen but they've had a total of just over 300 deaths. We have double that in one day.

LockdownLucy · 19/04/2020 01:42

I'd be surprised because it would suggest the government aren't flying by the seats if their pants and actually had someone in charge, making firm plans.

They don't. So it won't materialise.

cauliflowersqueeze · 19/04/2020 01:42

MintyChoc1
Why are teachers different?

They are not. But their conditions of work are totally different. Would you be happy to go to work in a crowd of 1000 young people with no understanding of social distancing at the moment, with no PPE?

Supermarket workers are able to socially distance, are behind a screen, single adults standing at 2 metre intervals, etc. Delivery drivers are able to socially distance. People in hospitals no, but they have (or should) full PPE. They are dealing with individual adults on the whole, whose aim in going to the supermarket or taking in a delivery is not hanging around with all your friends socially. Their jobs are not about managing large volumes of children.

It is impossible to make a school environment even basically safe at the moment. We had 7 kids in, teenagers from different year groups, and we STILL couldn’t keep them even remotely separate all the time. They don’t wash their hands properly, corridors are really narrow, cleaning is pretty inadequate I would say in schools generally, the cleaners can only use a kind of watered down pink spray, I don’t know what it is but there’s no bleach or anti bac stuff in it , kids pass each other pens, teachers collect in books, hand out resources. Millions of hands touching doors and even cutlery in the canteen. The queue for food in the canteen is about 50 metres long with them all crushed up together.

Classrooms are small. We could fit 8 students in a classroom at the correct distance. They wouldn’t be able to move. No emergency toilet breaks or getting up to open a window or empty pencil shavings into the bin. They would need to be totally static for the full lesson, then file out at 2 metre intervals and that’s ignoring the 4 other classes in the corridor. And where would the other 22 go while the chosen 8 were having a socially distanced static lesson?

Teachers should be going back to work once it’s manageable but there is no option to do this at the moment.

Let’s say they just have year 10 in. And let’s say there’s 180 in a year group. Let’s say 50 of them don’t come in because their parents don’t want them to catch or pass on a potentially fatal virus. They’ve heard “stay at home” about 58474839373874784933 times in the last month. You then have 130 students in. You tell them to sit 2 metres away from anyone on the public bus they get and not to walk 2 metres near anyone as they come into school or walk around school. Have you seen a school bus? Have you seen kids in groups? That’s not possible. You get them into school and remind them to wash their hands. 30 do. 10 wash their hands with soap. All of them touch the door handle to the toilets negating any effort as one has smeared virus all over the door. You have your depleted class of let’s say 25. You tell them 8 can come in, the other 17 are split into 2 groups in nearby rooms with cover teachers. This takes a huge length of time as they queue 2 metres down the corridor - our corridors aren’t 50 metres long. (I’ve missed out the bit when they all want to go to the locker room to get their books because the room is about 8 metres squared so I’m thinking this would take another 45 minutes to achieve). As the lead teacher you flit between 3 classrooms. Every surface and book and resource and pen and door handle and remote control and window opening and desk and book and light switch and keyboard and chair and bag could be contaminated. You could even be passing it on to someone else who then is the innocent courier and inadvertently kills their grandmother who lives with them. Is that reasonable? How else could it be managed? For some of them, their next lesson is Psychology. But the psychology teacher has acute asthma and so cannot come in. Another cover teacher? History next but the teacher is off because she’s showing symptoms. Another cover lesson. Perhaps up to 30% or 40% of teachers and support staff will be off, shielding children or elderly parents, vulnerable themselves, bereaved? Who knows. At secondary there are limited specialist teachers in different subjects. Hoping that is that they’re still alive and the school isn’t dealing with a bereavement of someone on their staff.

It’s break time. Your 130 students need to go to the 10 toilets and queue up at the servery to eat where there is space for 3 people at a time if they are 2 metres apart.

How long might that 15 minute break go on for in order for them all to have a snack and all go to the toilet (and all be reminded to wash their hands and not to touch anyone). Maybe an hour? Possibly 1.5 hours?

It’s PE time. But the changing rooms can only fit 4 in at a time with 2 metres around them. It’s ok. Each teen takes about 10 minutes to change so the half year group on at PE at a time, let’s say 60 of them, will now take 600 minutes to get everyone changed as they all wait really patiently (!!!!) in a socially distanced queue. I make that 10 hours of waiting. Or just cut PE out?

Let’s not forget that at every juncture of waiting around and not having a normal lesson the kids are wired up, pushing, annoying each other, etc.

So yes, while teachers are also workers, their environments are totally different. And that’s the problem.

tricky29 · 19/04/2020 01:43

I think where we live the start of the half summer term is 8 June. I can see why non-vulnerable teachers/children might go back at that point.

There isn’t a viable testing strategy in the U.K. at the moment no matter what the government says. They can’t do the volume that is needed. We aren’t testing the non-hospitalised community at all. There isn’t a test for immunity that is worth taking yet.

It’s not economically viable to lock the whole nation down beyond the end of June. It’s simply not affordable.

It really will be a case of sending the under 45/50 population out, crucially in the summer months, and seeing where the dice fall. At least the NHS capacity has been boosted to a certain extent.

We can argue about government strategy since January , our ability to test and trace till the cows come home. It won’t change where we are.

There is going to have to be a decision made about corona spread v indirect lives lost.
So many people are missing early cancer screening appointments, so many vulnerable people are being locked down with abusers, lots of children in neglectful/abusive situations. That’s intolerable as well.

We do need an exit strategy and I say that as someone who has been really careful for 6 weeks socially isolating.

I don’t know the answer but I’m very worried about what the future, post-crisis, holds.