Government reportedly considering schools going back in 3 weeks

[FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue]

On BBC News 24 now, article in tomorrow's Sunday Times says that ministers are considering schools going back in three weeks time. Plus allowing some shops and social gatherings, but not pubs and clubs.

but a number are stating that they are more at risk because children are significant spreaders of this particular virus. That is not a fact

It’s a reality.

If you didn't want your children to attend I'd lie and say someone in the house was self-isolating. I doubt very much anyone will check because you wouldn't be able to get a doctor's note for love nor money.

But if I have to go in and teach some year groups in Secondary, where do my primary age kids go? If they come under key worker kids, that could work. But school doesn't open until 8-and I have to be in my own school 20 miles away!!!

Same here, and I rely on before- and after-school care which isn't currently running and can't afford to operate for key worker children only. I raised this on another thread and just got a dismissive "well you're a key worker so your children will be at school" - not sure how many teachers can do a 9am drop off and 3.30 pick up every day...I pay £400 a month because I can't do that!

JassyRadlett

Sorry. I meant generally, as there are many people saying things about teachers that are myths, misinformation and outright lies all being presented as the truth.

As for Corvid-19 it just proves that we are human and have many different opinions.

You know, all the things that cross contamination a virus from one place to another.

It will depend on the virus, won’t it?If it is a virus to which they are biologically resistant, or if where infected they tend to have a much lower replicable viral load (both theories/early evidence I have seen suggested) then their ability to spread that virus would not be particularly great. Unlike with colds, influenza, etc.

How widely have children been tested and how effectively, I wonder? It’s my understanding that to get a good sample to test, the swab stuck up people’s noses gets shoved up there fairly aggressively and can cause nosebleeds. Also, if you only get mild symptoms, it’s hard to know when best to test. Also, children are less likely to be careful about hand washing, coughing, sneezing, wiping snot on their hands, etc. Basically, they behave differently from most adults. I would want good evidence, not tentative evidence, that they are unlikely to be spreaders of covid 19, given their behaviour and the difficulty of getting a good test from them without forcefully pinning them down to shove something up their nose.

Also, schools are absolutely, disgustingly filthy - they find it hard to recruit cleaners, and cleaning staff and midday meals staff report sick on an exceptionally regular basis at the best of times, let alone when they don’t really want to be working in schools at all. Midday meals supervisors in schools earn so little money, it isn’t worth their while going in if they think it might risk their lives to do so.

Reality and shit you make up on the internet are different things. People claiming children are significant spreaders of covid are stupid.

t will depend on the virus, won’t it?If it is a virus to which they are biologically resistant, or if where infected they tend to have a much lower replicable viral load (both theories/early evidence I have seen suggested) then their ability to spread that virus would not be particularly great. Unlike with colds, influenza, etc.

Agree but the RO of the flu is only approx 1.3. So there is that to take into account.

We need more real data on Covid its mind boggling at the moment but we are learning things all of the time.

Some new research says it may also be cardiovascular.

Nicola Sturgeon has just debunked what the papers and media are saying about schools opening again next month. No such thing has been suggested

Sorry. I meant generally, as there are many people saying things about teachers that are myths, misinformation and outright lies all being presented as the truth.

I’m sure there are, and that’s rubbish that it’s happening.

As for Corvid-19 it just proves that we are human and have many different opinions.

Hopefully there is space for everyone to have their opinions. But we can’t all have our own version of the facts to suit our argument.

For me, there is little I can do about what the government is likely to do. When it comes I hope the language I’ve seen of ‘inviting’ parents to send their children carries through and it will be a choice for all parents to make based on their own circumstances and risk assessments; in a similar way I hope teachers’ circumstances will be accommodated and we have a stronger evidence base by then.

Mine won't be going back, fine or no fine.
My retired work friend has died from this as has one of my neighbours.
It's too close to home

Floatyboat - people making grand and confident claims in either direction come across as rather stupid.

What about all the teachers and other staff who are in a vulnerable group (but not shielded). Several conditions with the highest mortality rates are not on the shielding list. Perhaps because they're such common conditions (i.e. diabetes, hypertension, being overweight). What about children with these conditions? Or who live with a household member with one of those conditions. Will they all be excused from attending (staff and children both)? How about male teachers? It's affecting men more. And BAME staff? It's disproportionately affecting those communities. Reopening schools too early could be interpreted as a complete lack of concern for certain sections of the population.

Agree but the RO of the flu is only approx 1.3. So there is that to take into account.

We need more real data on Covid its mind boggling at the moment but we are learning things all of the time.

Yes - there is much we don’t know and the evidence base is developing quickly.

I’m trying to find the primary source of the Munich academic who said they had seen no evidence of child to adult transmission which struck me as particularly interesting but without context you just can’t know.

Well opinions or predictions are fine. Statements claiming facts about reality that have no evidence and are in fact contrary to lots of evidence are stupid.

There is also research from Australia I think that kids who attended school while being Theoretically infectious did not lead to outbreaks - very much different from adults at the same stage.
Which fits with anecdotal evidence from the uk (several schools around here had kids attending who were tested positively, no outbreak)
No big studies yet (obviously), but the jigsaw pieces are starting to fit together.

Daily mail article re new york'

'Roughly 1.7 per cent of the coronavirus cases reported as of April 2 were patients under the age of 18. Some 147 children have been hospitalized, including 59 that are under the age of 1. Three children have died from the virus.

But Dr Hes believes that the real numbers of children with the disease are much worse, blaming the lack of testing for why more accurate figures aren't available.

'I don't mean to be rude, but the numbers are totally wrong,' Hes said. 'I think that probably 80% of the children have coronavirus. We are not testing children. I'm in New York City. I can't get my patients tested. And we have to assume, if they are sick, they have coronavirus.

'Most of them, probably 80 to 90% of them, are asymptomatic. So, these numbers are so skewed. I think that the mortality rate is way, way less than 0.5% for children who have it because it is so prevalent. You have to remember thousands of kids die from flu a year. This is much, much less virulent in children.'

The pediatrician said families should just assume their child probably has the coronavirus if they start showing symptoms. '

He then said kids were speading it which was why so many school related adult deaths and they should have shut schools earlier.

I agree with pp you cant study how many kids and adults were infected in places that shut schools quickly.
I doubt 80% of kids in ny have had it as only about 2-3% of adults anywhere have had it.
Anyway kids have been shown to have it.
So i imagine they can spread it.
It would just take 1 infectious child to infect a whole school and parents.
(Mass gatherings of adult s singing etc have infected thousands...)
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Wonder what unis will do in sept? Thats hundred s of adults in 1 room. I think there were 20k or more at my uni.if 0.2% died thats 40. I imagine some people would delay a year to get a better experience (if they dont decide to retake exams).

For those needing childcare groups of 10 could be run in sports halls . Convention halls. Village halls.
Child minders could restart but with a set of children rather than varying daily.

They could allow the eldest or most advanced in say 15 and let them progress to somehow merge classes afterwards. With some kids being allowed to drop back a year. As frankly many wouldnt cope just with 2-3 days at school for a whole year.
Certainly say history/geography/social and pe could be dropped for home reading.
And give kids 2 days a week with maths/writing.
Also there will be kids already hitting end of year targets. If parents dont need the childcare those ones dont need to go in.

Daily mail article of one random doctors opinion. Nice.

Scottish briefing has denied the media reporting in Scotland said its not evidence they have seen and not evidence they would endorse.

Also thry may not ? Be spreaders who knows but if as has been suggested they dont gain immunity then they may keep getting it. So frequent fevers and cough etc.
Plus they would still like adults carry on clothing even if it's just the adults spreading at school so vulnerable/shielding parents would have to decontaminate the kids when they get home. So minimum i would suggest nothing comes home from school no work or books or bags etc.

If older year groups went in they can walk themselves so no issue with pick up drop off. Dropping any kids to let them go through a gate is probably better too than even our school where we go to outdoor door.

If older year groups went in they can walk themselves so no issue with pick up drop off

Massive numbers of secondary school children have to go to school by public transport though

If they decide to reopen schools on a setup similar to Denmark and we have classes of 10 so kids in on a three week rotation - they get taught one week then spend two weeks at home doing nothing because their teacher is teaching, how is that better than them being at home for all three weeks doing some structured online learning like the BBC stuff or the new DfE online school?

Massive numbers of secondary school children have to go to school by public transport though

And they would not resist walking in gangs, sitting in parks and stopping at each others houses.

I see a number of posters are asking what the point is in delaying the reopening of schools given that they can't stay closed forever and there is no certainty as to when we will have a reliable vaccine. I think the answer to that is that a delay would give time to massively ramp up capacity to test for the virus. If more cases can be diagnosed with certainty, you can then make it the law (backed up with criminal sanctions) that if anyone in a child's household has COVID-19 and may still be infections, the child must not be sent to school until the risk of the child contracting the infection and passing it on at school has passed. Obviously, scientific experts would need to calculate what the appropriate period would be, which would obviously vary according to number of individuals in the household. Where a pupil or staff member was found to be infected, you could shut the school for a short period to allow time for contact tracing and testing within school (with a requirement that any contacts who refused to be tested would be required to stay off school for set period). If it became clear that a particular school was turning into an infection "hotspot", that particular school could be closed for a period. Obviously, this would not eliminate COVID-19 cases, but it would slow the spread, and slowing the spread saves lives. COVID-19 testing already exists, so this route is not relying on scientific developments that haven't happened yet. If the political will is there (as opposed to Matt Hancock plucking random numbers out of the air as testing "targets") then testing rates can be ramped up.

@yurona given that people have been infected how do you know people have caught it from children or not? There has been no testing and no contact tracing. How do people know if they have caught it from their child who has no symptoms or from the bus on the way to work? They don't.