How long can we carry on like this for?

[Pseudosudocrem]

Anyone else starting to wonder just how long we can carry on like this before everything irrevocably falls apart?

How will we ever recover as a country?

I also care about the young mums who have breast cancer who will not get the best (expensive) treatment. Who will die in 2 years time because there is no funding.

They may also die because the treatment is too dangerous if they have a high risk of being infected with coronavirus.

@Boudicabooandbulldogs Of course people with a month or two to live do not want to spend it in lock down, neither would I.
I have two friends who have cancer. Both are terrified of getting covid 19 as both have been told their chances of dying of it are very high. Both are still fairly young and if their treatment works could live a long time.

I used to volunteer for an abuse charity and heard horrific stories. I think it is now being used as an excuse to end lock down. Last year 60% of women who sought a refuge place were turned away because there were no places. I have seen staff ringing round desperately trying to find a place. I have supported young women sleeping rough to escape abuse. Some women died because there was no refuge place. Do you think everyone now talking about DV cared before now? Of course not or all those women would have had a refuge place.

And of course GPs want to see their grandchildren. My parents do. But they will wait.

Awful as it is, CV isn't the only issue which needs thinking about and what we need is balance ... which unfortunately seems at a bit of a premium right now

This is so true

I think there will come a point where people's desperation at being out of work, or trying to work and homeschool, or isolation at home will override their feelings of societal responsibility for the lives of people they neither know nor care about

I honestly believe most people don't care about others, not really. They would rather send their kids back to school if they think their kids are safe, and to hell with school staff who are at risk. I have also seen vulnerable teachers on MN saying they are not running extra curricula stuff after all this is over. They have seen too many parents who clearly are willing to put them at risk.

Most people not getting treatment right now are not either because there is not enough staff or because they are at more risk of contracting covid 19 and dying from that if they catch it. Ending lock down makes no difference to either of those 2 reasons.

@alloutoffucks
That’s the point every person has a different view of the same circumstances and none are right or wrong. Many of the patients I work with were saying they didn’t want lockdown at all even though they know they are likely to die if they get it.
I agree with lockdown, but not for the foreseeable future. There are no good options.
But we cannot as a country carry on paying people for months without it having a huge impact on our economy that will damage all charities, all welfare and all healthcare for decades to come.

They "think" many things but I'm not at all convinced of this, remembering that fewer than 20% of the Diamond Princess people caught it - and that was on a floating petri dish with an elderly demographic

20% got it in a few weeks and while the infection control wasn't as good as it should have been they were attempting it. They were also removing passengers who tested positive. The figure would no doubt have been much higher if they kept everyone on the ship for months and there was no attempt at infection control.

Our ancestors lived with worse. We'll get used to it and carry on our lives, and yes, some people will die, mostly the old or very old. At least we have science to help us understand so hopefully things won't get too irrational, unlike previous periods of history. You can live in hope.

Perhaps they mean different strains will come around every few years.

I genuinely can’t believe I’ve read a poster casually tell someone else their loved ones are all going to die?

Like..... regardless of whether you disagree with someone on here, what a HORRIBLE thing to say to try and prove your point @NikeDeLaSwoosh genuinely you should be ashamed of yourself.

Like do you really want to be right so much that you’ll just say to a total stranger that their loved ones are all going to die? In such a weirdly cold manner?
That is totally disgusting. I’m not commenting further on it but I felt I had to say something and I hope the other poster is ok because I would be so upset if someone said that to me. There is no way you can frame that to make it seem appropriate.

unregulated covid epidemics will eat up cancer funding as quickly as a recession

Don't put different illnesses up against each other. It's in everyone's interests-especially cancer patients!! For covid numbers to stay very very low.

I question how much anyone using this ridiculous argument to ease lockdown cares about cancer patients. Good luck getting chemotherapy when the numbers are spiking again. Good luck shielding in those circumstances too.

DeathByBoredom “ At least we have science to help us understand so hopefully things won't get too irrational, unlike previous periods of history. You can live in hope.”

But look how hysterical they are now. It wouldn’t have been so bad before 24 hour news.

@DeathByBoredom Yes our ancestors lived with worse I agree. Maybe time to get kids out to work again? What about abolishing pensions? It will only kill the poor and old anyway.
Seriously I have seen more compassion from a cabbage than you.

Alsohuman I'll try to find it again, but I posted an ONS graph on another thread which indicated that beyond 70, money received from the public purse does indeed begin to exceed contributions - and that didn't even include NHS spending
Nobody's suggesting we simply write them all off of course, but I'm just trying to stick with the facts

I think there will come a point where people's desperation at being out of work, or trying to work and homeschool, or isolation at home will override their feelings of societal responsibility for the lives of people they neither know nor care about

I totally agree, and that's why restrictions need to be lifted sooner rather than later, so the situation can be managed instead of descending into chaos

@Puzzledandpissedoff Sure elderly people cost us money. That does not mean they deserve to die.

Oh God though can you imagine without science. It'd be all religious mumbo jumbo and quack cures aplenty, along with the burning of witches. At least there's a veneer of science to add rationality to the debate

If this drives people to religion I am going to be even more depressed

It's a virus not the hand of God. There's no 'deserves to die' about it.

Our ancestors lived with worse. We'll get used to it and carry on our lives, and yes, some people will die, mostly the old or very old. At least we have science to help us understand so hopefully things won't get too irrational, unlike previous periods of history. You can live in hope.
Well said. And in many parts of the world people live with alongside horrible diseases that kill millions -malaria, parasitic diseases.
We all need to get back to work ASAP.
And even better if the Gvt says no foreign travel this year so people spend money on this country and boost the economy here.

The only reason to end lock down is if you think everyone is going to get it anyway and that it is not worth trying to prevent 1% of the population dying.

Sure elderly people cost us money. That does not mean they deserve to die

I'm not for an instant suggesting they do - I was simply trying to answer a PP who queried the finances involved

The only reason to end lock down is if you think everyone is going to get it anyway and that it is not worth trying to prevent 1% of the population dying.

That's just far too simplistic

@Stellamboscha Because nobody tries to tackle malaria and stop people dying of it?
I hear some stupid arguments but this one takes the biscuit.

Please watch this

We have science to help us? Is that the science that the UK government is refusing to publish since they seem to have different science to the rest of the world?

It is an economic balance.
Germany has already set an acceptable infection/death rate for it to relax lockdown.
We have to do the same here.
I know that MN is the archetypal 'save every life at any cost', but MN isn't reality, is it?
We have to accept some infections, we have to accept some deaths
It is like the sluice gate around a dam, you have to let some water pass by for it to work.