How long can we carry on like this for?

[Pseudosudocrem]

Anyone else starting to wonder just how long we can carry on like this before everything irrevocably falls apart?

How will we ever recover as a country?

[Mascotte]

Before then I’d accept it if I were ill and hope dc would be ok

[MigginsMs]

Although I do wonder at what age we should be happy to die for strangers? 90? 80? 70? 60? 50? What age are we when we become disposable and unimportant?


You clearly aren’t capable of approaching this issue with any kind of rational thought, as you seem to incessantly post about people being “happy” about deaths, even though no none has said or suggested any such thing, so I’m unsure why I am replying.

My grandad lived til 92. The last few years of his life he wasn’t really happy. I reckon he’d have been happier seen off by the virus. He still had us, but his friends were all gone, his partner, his son. He didn’t really have anything to live for, the things he liked he couldn’t do any more. He didn’t really want to keep on living the last couple of years of his life but - well you don’t have any choice I guess. By the time he got to 90, yes I am certain he’d have been content to go. He certainly wouldn’t have wanted his family to be locked down and barely even bloody able to visit him or give him a hug just to potentially prolong his life.

[alloutoffucks]

@mascotte You know for some parents that could be as young as 40?
I see myself as more than a parent. I do not think my only purpose in life is to raise my children and then I can die.

[LilacTree1]

ink

I’d have gone for thee Swedish option, or a less draconian lockdown.

Germany lockdown has allowed people to - gasp - sit on the beach, with social distancing.

Yes, I know the death rate would be higher, yes I’m prepared to be collateral damage.

I think it’s particularly appalling to cut off elderly and shielding groups from their normal social support. Ironic after it was a big thing early this year, support and company for elderly etc.

Ruining the last months of many lives.

Like I said, my view is we must learn to live and die with this disease. There might be no vaccine.

[Mascotte]

@alloutoffucks I thought someone asked about when being happy to die?

I’m fifty so not ancient. That’s just my view. You don’t have to agree.

[LilacTree1]

Miggins “ He certainly wouldn’t have wanted his family to be locked down and barely even bloody able to visit him or give him a hug just to potentially prolong his life.”

I said similar about mum on the EP board and some posters thought me and mum needed our heads read.

She barely exists as a widow as it is. If she survives this, I dread to think what condition I’ll find her in.

[Mascotte]

And @LilacTree1 yes, it’s peculiar how all these supposedly core values have been chucked under a bus for this.

[alloutoffucks]

When I first came on these corona threads well before lock down, I did not think a lock down would ever happen and was not arguing for one. I did think that large gatherings should have been cancelled, people flying in from N Italy should not have been allowed to get public transport home to self isolate. That the government should give a general statement encouraging working from home when possible.

These were being argued and rubbished by some of the same posters still arguing against lock down. Some people seem to have wanted no action at all. Just for the virus to work its way through the population while everyone did nothing to stop them getting it.

[LilacTree1]

The other thing about elderly people in particular- they’re not really trying to protect them, they just don’t want them clogging up their now mysteriously precious NHS.

[Inkpaperstars]

Thanks for explaining Lilac

It will be really interesting, for want of a better word, to see what plays out with the different approaches, although it is hard to compare across populations.

I am becoming more and more worried about the elderly and shielded being isolated, my DM is 81 next month and living alone several hours from me. I don't know what to do for the best as this goes on. But she doesn't want to put herself at any raised risk of catching it, she is just sad as I am at the alternative. Horrible choices.

[alloutoffucks]

@LilacTree1 I am in the shielded group and have been surprised at some of my other friends who are, along with some children I know.
It is clear in what you receive that in the shielded group you can ignore the guidelines. It even gives the example that if you only have a few months left to live, you may decide to still meet with family you don't live with and in that circumstance that is okay.

Generally terminally ill people close to death are not being put in the shielded group. My FIL died last year. He could no longer go out. With family visiting his life would have been exactly the same under lock down as it was then. People close to death are rarely able to get out and about.
And for very isolated elderly people, many will be getting more phone calls than usual. I need to go to bed so not searching for it, but the most isolated elderly people do not talk to anyone in a normal week. Volunteer groups are set up all over the place phoning isolated elderly people at least twice a week. This is an improvement in what they previously had.
It is the very sociable out and about elderly person who will see the biggest change to their life.

[LilacTree1]

ink in a similar position here, not several hours away but a Tube ride which is not allowed.

If she wants to kill herself, all she has to do is stop her heart medication. I fear she might do this. Someone will come along and scream about how covid is a terrible way to die so I’ll get on with that point before I go to bed.

It’s a much better way to go than her older siblings, who spent the last few of their lives doubly incontinent and bedbound. It’s better than what dad went through with cancer. In fact, it sounds like pneumonia, which I’ve had twice, once nearly died. Really a much better way to go than many other old age ways.

I wonder how much the media are to blame for the Covid hysteria and even the lockdown. Was it 40,000 extra deaths in the UK when the flu vaccine didn’t work a couple of years ago? No daily press briefing about that.

[alloutoffucks]

lilactree Elderly people are not being admitted to hospitals usually. This is about saving younger people. Younger people do get very ill with this, but will usually survive with the right treatment.

[alloutoffucks]

So a friend of mine in her 30s has been in hospital for this and is now back home. She was in for a week getting oxygen treatment. She will recover and be fine. Without beds and staff she may have died at home. That is the kind of person this is to protect.

[alloutoffucks]

There were not 40,000 extra deaths from flu that is false. Look at ONS. The worst it has been is 17,000. And yes there were lots of media articles about it. Lots of people were worried.

[Parker231]

@LilacTree1 - the elderly and those with specific health conditions have received advice about self isolation as they are at greatest risk if they catch COVID.

The NHS provides an amazing service but can’t do so it it gets swamped with cases. Hopefully the lockdown buys time for cases to happen at a manageable level and remain at that level as the lockdown is lifted.

Why would you refer to the ‘mysteriously precious NHS’?

[user1477391263]

every single day thousands of people are diagnosed with different illness and they still need to have acces to NHS.

They are not able to access the NHS right now! Even cancer follow up and treatment is being cancelled.

[Parker231]

There are issues with some cancer treatments as their illness and/or treatment puts them at a greater risk of getting the virus so going to hospital for treatment is high risk. Some appointments are being done over the phone.

[Inkpaperstars]

I really hope your mum gets through this time ok Lilac

[1forAll74]

It will take as long as it takes basically.The powers that be,are not making things up as they go along,they are trying to work out the best and most sensible ways of dealing with everything. It would be inane to stop lock down.and open up all things soon,and go back to what most would call normal again.

[peachdribble]

We’re still at early stages regarding our knowledge of this disease, and I’d rather we stayed on lockdown but did things properly - testing, tracing, proper financial & practical help for those self-isolating. The economy means nothing while people are dying en masse, and multiples more may die if we lift the lock down too soon.

[Eyewhisker]

My Dad is 80 and healthy. His chance of dying with those disease at 80 is 5%. He lives alone and we are too far away to visit him and despite daily video calls he is miserable. He has few healthy years left and to spend two of them in isolation for a 5% risk - and that if a vaccine ever comes - has an enormous cost.

The whole problem with lockdown and hide is that it is not a strategy. It does not get rid of the virus as it is too widespread and this will make zero difference however long we lockdown for. Maybe there will be a treatment, maybe there will be a vaccine but the lockdown is depriving the whole population of a normal life and is particularly hard on those who have just a few quality years left. If it has to be longer than a few weeks, an awful lot of people, including those we are trying to protect, would rather take their chances with the virus.

[Cabamba]

Reading the papers and watching the news items on the internet (I rarely turn the tv on) they want a definitive 'road plan' of how and when we get back to normal. It's always the same, if you don't have the responsibility for doing a job but you're able to simply talk about it, any situation is so damned easy to deal with. As pointed out on here, how do you do do 'social distancing' in schools? If you were a teacher would you want to go back to school and occupy a room with thirty+ children in it? Obviously something has to give, but the time has got to be when the mass of people feel it's worth the risk otherwise they simply won't do it.

[Frompcat]

This is the thing, surely even among older people with co morbidities the chance of recovering from this illness is still greater than the chance of dying from it?

[midgebabe]

It doesn't matter if your parents would rather take their chances.

The people who would be responsible for mopping up the pieces are not at all happy with that idea. The nurses and doctors who are trying to treat every ill person with inadequate resources ( including insufficient doctors and nurses) don't want to see corridors full of people struggling to breathe. They want to give people the best chance of survival or at least a pain free death.

And it's not forever, its not until there is a vaccine, it's a few weeks. Things will change and get better slowly soon