So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

[ssd]

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

@PlanDeRaccordement you were listening today too! But some people won’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

The only reason they’ve had to bring Romanian fruit pickers over is because no one here will do it.

Some here are doing it according to Messerr Shropshires out near Ely in the fens but not a great many, its bloody hard work the sort of work that we don't want to do anymore!

I agree cologne and too, it is impossible for any government to know in advance what IS the right approach. I am sure hindsight will have some lessons to learn, but governments are not gods. They cannot know what is the best and right way to tackle a pandemic when it first appears in a few short months.

That''ll be the care home deaths hidden in plain sight on the ONS and NRS websites. The stats are updated weekly. Tuesday for the ONS and Wednesday for the NRS. Have a look. It will give you a much more rounded picture of what is happening and includes sex, age and location profiles of those dying.

Hello Bool
I tend to read the daily transcripts as my listening is not the best in English. But yes, my brother SIL and my nieces live in the U.K. so I try and keep up on what is going on across the way. :)

@PlanDeRaccordement hello! Are you in France?

I agree with you OP they have made an almighty mess of this.
Testing, contact tracing and forced isolation is a massive overwhelming task at this stage. But I don't know what else we can do? There is research coming in that most people who have this virus do not develop immunity. So either we try and eradicate it, or we try and learn to live with a deadly virus in our midst's from now on.

@helpfulperson yep. Sigh

@alloutoffucks source please for that research

user1471448556 "They can’t seem to provide NHS staff with adequate protection"" because currently that protection does not exist.

As for choosing lockdown sooner that is based on hindsight which only requires an armchair so is quite popular.

Governments cannot lock down too soon due to the economic damage it causes. They have to time it carefully to try and cover the worst of the outbreak. Already we are supposed to have depression economy due to amount of lockdown already. Worse than depression is very scary. It’s bread riots, crime waves, starvation, (bankrupt government so welfare, public services, police, health cuts).

The NHS are coping relatively well and we have probably reached the peak. I think they pitched it right. The other option is to keep numbers very low then have to lockdown again very quickly. Until they have a vaccine is likely that we will have a lockdown then a period of lessened restrictions then a lockdown. Some other countries are already on their second spike.

alloutoffucks I’ve seen you mention ‘forced isolation’ a few times... what do you mean by this? Welding doors closed like in China?

Yes Bool, I am in France.

Yes I'm sure @all has said on other threads we should be more like like China 🙄

Personally I think it is those who refuse to obey guidelines that will be responsible for more deaths. All those who ignore social distancing and insist that they won’t be told what to do are ensuring that more die than otherwise would.

If there had been an earlier lockdown, the mentality of a certain section of the UK’s population would have been shouting that they won’t be told what to do by a ‘nazi’ state.

Those who say we should have copied South Korea and China? These countries brought in guidelines which the people in this country just wouldn’t abide by, because people in this country have a freedom that people in China could only dream about!

The biggest mistake that this country has made, has been not enforcing more severe punishments for those who ignore guidelines,

• if you are found driving to your second home, your car should have been impounded and crushed.
• if you ignore social distancing, large fines not the current paltry ones, which aren’t enough of a deterrent to those who would rather risk being caught, than sticking to guidelines!

If it had been a Labour Government, would it have been better handled? No, Corbyn would have been a disaster, because remember he would still have been Labour Leader and PM, rather than the much more reasonable and sensible Keir Starmer!

@alloutoffucks where do you get that information from?
That’s not what I have read.

There is research coming in that most people who have this virus do not develop immunity.

Can you link to that research?

Governments cannot lock down too soon due to the economic damage it causes.

That doesn't fit the narrative though & means the gov are prioritising the economy over lives.

There is research coming in that most people who have this virus do not develop immunity

Link?

That doesn't fit the narrative though & means the gov are prioritising the economy over lives

No such thing as prioritising the economy over lives. The economy is lives.

@ssd ignores completely valid points & refuses to engage with questions but calls posters on the thread ignorant. The lack of critical thinking is astounding!

I agree @HoffiCoffi13 but many can't make that link.

I'm convinced we need to start reporting the U.K. as three separate countries for the purposes of recording CV Deaths. England has one of the densest populations in Europe.
We also have a very high % of BAME working and living here.

I also cannot quite understand why the WHO can't set out conditions as to who is counted as a death under CV if we are to use these statistics'officially' as it seems very daft to be comparing apples and pears as some of the Eu countries seem to be. They are saying U.K. has highest deaths when actually some of them could be higher themselves if they recorded in the same manner as the U.K.

This was posted on another thread.

Preliminary and based on small sample size, but "Serology testing from Wuhan indicates only 2-3% have antibody among 8,600 hospital workers and visitors, with much more testing in the works."
mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1251151111655813128