So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

[ssd]

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

I'm sure mistakes have been made and it will be interesting to see this in retrospect but I don't think we can compare death rates for a long time yet. Those countries with very strict lockdowns will have to lift them eventually. I think those with the best testing and tracing will probably do the best long term.

That's the above article not behind the pay wall.

Please read it, it is unbelievable.

Thanks, OP. Shocking article.

That article, OP sums up why so many of us are so angry with the Govt's bungling of this catastrophe.

Awful - Johnson missing 5 Cobra meetings? Absolutely disgusting. How anyone can defend him now is beyond me but just seen it discussed on Marr and they were all "Oh well hindsight is a wonderful thing..." There's not having the benefit of hindsight and there's being shortsighted and downright lazy and incompetent. .

He didn't need hindsight - we were failing to lockdown for TWO WEEKS after all the awful stories from Italy ( let alone Wuhan) were on every front page.

Frankly all he needed to do was read the bloody Daily Mail, let alone listen to some scientists.

If a bunch of non-expert mums could spot and be posting about the exponential rises in cases and deaths and the need to lockdown, back in Feb on this site, then I'm sure Boris could have figured it out with all his experts to advise.

It is abundantly clear that the official policy of Dominic Cummings Boris Johnson was to go for eugenics, by ensuring that the old, sick and poor were infected in large numbers - before eventually being reluctantly forced into action by people voting with their feet and private companies shutting up shop.

ssd

From your Times link:

"But it took just an hour that January 24 lunchtime to brush aside the coronavirus threat. Matt Hancock, the health secretary, bounced out of Whitehall after chairing the meeting and breezily told reporters the risk to the UK public was “low”."

"This was despite the publication that day of an alarming study by Chinese doctors in the medical journal, The Lancet. It assessed the lethal potential of the virus, for the first time suggesting it was comparable to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, which killed up to 50 million people."

How very odd that Richard Horton, the editor of The Lancet tweeted this on the 23rd January.

"A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity.There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language."

So we are now getting information that many people have reported a rash after the coronavirus. Something my mother in law and sister in law reported in January after having symptoms of a cough and being as they described the worst they had ever felt. My mother in law who is over 70 an asthmatic chest and was a smoker for over 40 yrs. She is still alive and didn't go to hospital. I myself have had pleuresy and was unable to breath I didn't get incubated I was given anti biotics nebuliser treatment and inhalers and was ill for a long time. ??

Whu020 post viral rashes are fairly common aren’t they? I get them regularly after nasty viruses, as does one of my children.
Not disputing what you’re saying, just pointing out that post viral rash is a thing.

The government in this country isn't in charge, Boris is a puppet. The banks and the pharmaceutical industry are in charge backed by the WHO and the the 3 Muppets from imperial college (who buy the way gets money from bill gates) everyone keeps praising. Trump whether you like him or not is standing up to it and people are protesting all over the world and the media aren't reporting on it.

No I certainly don't trust this government to look after my wellbeing.
I don't think lockdown should end any time soon.
I am classes as a key worker and myself and colleagues had to push hard to install safety measures within out work place.
I do not want these measures ending in the foreseeable future, no matter how 'inconvenienced' the public are.
I don't believe that the general public are clean enough for my liking and I'm not prepared to take their word for it.
I think certain people need things spelling out to them in black and white. I don't think this government can do that strongly enough.
Before lockdown I came across 2 separate individuals in our staff kitchen!!!
Wtf!!!!
Do I seriously need to put up a sign telling the public to stay the fuck out of the staff facilities?
I don't want the public allowed back into where I work. I don't trust my boss or the government to be firm enough about this.
As for reopening of pubs etc, I won't be going. Once again I don't believe people are clean enough.

Also I think the majority of the cabinet don't care if 75 year old Tiger from down the road dies or not.
Neither do they care if 35 year old disable Tom dies either.

I typed Roger, not Tiger!!!

I notice from that article Boris wasn't interested until the stock market fell.

I'm sure his supporters will STILL rally around him and his government and say they're doing a brilliant job. One thing I've learnt over the last few years is that Brexit is more important than ANYTHING. It doesn't matter how much damage is done or how many people die if this government delivers Brexit nothing else matters. The fact Brexit diverts attention and money from pandemics doesn't matter, Brexit is more important.

He concluded: “So, in summary, the relatively high ‘death rates’ in the UK are likely caused by a) massively undercounting the number of people who actually have Covid-19, and b) overcounting the number of deaths caused by Covid-19.”

We know the government took advice from psychologists. I really do not believe that as many of the public have obeyed the rules of lockdown as they have without fear motivating.

My belief is by reporting the numbers this way we have been scared into locking down - somewhere cannot find a link - there was a report that British obeyed the rules the most.

We have to remember as will that this government has purged the civil service of what they saw as critical voices (basically anyone who thought Brexit wasn't a fantastic idea) and replaced them with yes men, weirdos and misfits. I'm sure that hasn't helped.

Did anyone else notice what the Edwards et al research referenced in the times article concluded? I have not read the original research but the mortality predictions referenced, even with a 12 week lockdown, are dire:

'^^The team modelled the effects of a 12-week lockdown involving school and work closures, shielding the elderly, social distancing and self-isolation. It estimated this would delay the impact of the pandemic but there still might be 280,000 deaths over the year'

Praising pop stars and old people for raising money out of her own pocket
The very elderly man who raised money for the NHS, not to take anything away from him but imo this has too obviously been used as a distraction technique.
All this focus on a frail elderly man who has been able to tug on heartstrings to raise money from the public, what about the fact that the government is incompetent and inefficient with resources that we pay for with our taxes???
The clapping for the nurses is starting to look hollow to me all this applause serves 2 distract attention away from the fact that the government are trying to trick them into working in unsafe conditions.

Can we all stop responding to Whu020 please? Antisemitism isn’t a good look

B1 I agree.
I pay quite enough tax and national insurance.
It’s the governments fault if they don’t spend this money wisely.
I’m not buying any charity records et al.
I will support the charities I choose and they are the ones that mean the most to me.
Clapping will not protect lives.
I get it’s a show of support but quite frankly it does not replace providing adequate Ppe for staff.

Oh and let’s not forget Borris and his cronies are still pushing ahead with the great white elephant costing BILLIONS which us HS2.
Hmmmm I wonder why that is?
Oh I know could it have anything to do with the fact that quite a lot of the torques are major share holders in the companies contracted to build HS 2?
The bill was pushed through parliament last week, even though our poor pm was ‘too ill’ to attend meeting about the pandemic facing us all.
Ahh bless him.
No I don’t trust a thing this government say.
When will people wake up to the fact that they do not give a fuck about you, your family or anyone else.
There is plenty of money available . The fact is this government chose not to spend it on protecting nhs staff because that does not line there pockets.

Just to let you know, I reported the post above I had copied and pasted as the article shown was originally behind a pay wall and its copyright, so I had the post removed.

So sorry, ssd, I have been working, and didn't see the article. Could you post the title, or a link to the page with paywall on?