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So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

527 replies

ssd · 17/04/2020 15:39

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

OP posts:
Humphriescushion · 17/04/2020 18:59

@PlanDeRaccordement the uk figures clearly say hosital only. The french figures if they are around the 17,000 which i think those figures are include care homes. The uk does indeed get the care homes figueres from the ons but they are not on the gov. Stats given each day. I agree all deaths should be recorded but at the moment it is not like for like with the uk and france unless you use the figures for france without the care homes.

alloutoffucks · 17/04/2020 18:59

@marginalgain Flu kills from 400 people to an average of 8,000 in the UK. The time the vaccine failed it killed 17,000. Unless the amount of dead in the UK does not go above 17,000 then it is as being said more deadly than flu.

Tattiebee · 17/04/2020 19:01

So many government supporters who can't bare to hear a word against them. I wonder how they are passing the time these days, they certainly must never be turning on the TV and watching the news.Maybe ignorance is bliss after all.

Most people are critical of at least elements of their response, don't think that because you read biased interviews based on assumptions that you are more enlightened than the sheep. Being against everything that the government does is just as ridiculous as being for everything they do. Your responses never answer what people are reasonably asking, so you obviously don't want any sort of rationale debate.

Bartlet · 17/04/2020 19:02

I’m not a massive Boris fan. Just a pragmatist. Sure they’re making mistakes but there is no rule book for this. In the aftermath I’m sure there’ll be lots of enquiries but hindsight is always 20:20. This collective hysteria is getting bonkers.

Bool · 17/04/2020 19:03

@ssd it has nothing to do with being a government supporter or not. You have no idea how I voted. I just don’t agree with you. Deal with it.

tontie · 17/04/2020 19:04

So many government supporters who can't bare to hear a word against them

Says the person who refuses to engage in any meaningful debate

Humphriescushion · 17/04/2020 19:04

I would like to see where they are added clearly for the uk? Where? What day? How many?

Bartlet · 17/04/2020 19:05

And the amount of posters who you see on thread after thread about COVID (some below me on this one) who think that they’re fucking experts of epidemiology and public health. The absolute arrogance to think that they know better than the experts.

Thelittleweasel · 17/04/2020 19:07

Its tragic of course but does need to be put into perspective.

In 2018 there were 541000 deaths in England and Wales [not Scotland] so 40000 is about 7%. What we do not know is how many of the 40000 would have been in the 541000. Some 13000 to 17000 die each year - rather unremarked - of "normal" winter 'flu.

@ssd

SantiagoSky · 17/04/2020 19:08

The number of deaths in the UK US already above 17.000 given that the stats are hospital deaths only.

SantiagoSky · 17/04/2020 19:08

(is instead of US)

AvalancheKit · 17/04/2020 19:08

@ssd

Just imagine we had had a Corbyn government since the 2015 General Election. Can you list the things they would have done which would have had a direct impact on any shortcomings today please.

Greysparkles · 17/04/2020 19:09

Flu kills from 400 people to an average of 8,000 in the UK. The time the vaccine failed it killed 17,000. Unless the amount of dead in the UK does not go above 17,000 then it is as being said more deadly than flu

Where is your source for those figures? As PHE don't agree... 2014/15-- 34300

So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?
TheCunkOfPhilomena · 17/04/2020 19:09

{{https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1251042037941653506 Take a look at this video from NHS staff.]]

TheCunkOfPhilomena · 17/04/2020 19:10

Take a look at this video from NHS staff.

thetoddleratemyhomework · 17/04/2020 19:10

One thing that is trickier for the U.K. government is that we don't have and are not required to carry ID cards and don't have to, for example, register our presence at local town halls etc. So actually in terms of some of the tracing and policing we are really at a huge disadvantage. I think ID cards are sensible, but there has been huge resistance to this for years on "big brother" grounds. Well, you pay your money you take your choice.

The government initially did do tracing but really it was so difficult to identify those people who would have come into contact with people through very minor interactions (shops, public transport) etc. that once you have a certain amount of spread in urban areas it gets very hard.

We don't have local and dispersed testing facilities to the extent of France and Germany (personally I think we should, and that probably this would be a service that could be well served in a partnership with the private sector, which is what those countries do - in Paris, there is literally a laboratoire d'analyses on every few streets. It's about efficacy of service and not about clinical decisions or allocation of resources so it is perfect for outsourcing, just like we do with eye care in the U.K., but I suspect this is an unpopular view!!). So France and Germany already had the local well dispersed partnership with, effectively, the private sector for testing and were comfortable using it - the same cannot be said for Public Heath England, who wanted to centralise for overall control, which means really building a massive amount of local-but-controlled-centrally testing centres. Which is what has held things up.

Don't get me wrong, I think some of the messaging could be better communicated, but some of the comparisons being made are not like with like.

Finally, perhaps this crisis and all the comparison flying around, fair or not, will prompt a discussion that is more grown up around healthcare - ie do you want to pay more for it like Germany (being a young person starting out and paying for your own healthcare contributions is actually quite hard - people in the U.K. used to pocketing a larger portion of a low salary would be shocked)? Would you like to see more sensible private sector partnerships in eg diagnostic testing? private sector involvement is not all about awful PFI contracts and profiteering, but that has been the narrative for a long time -
this crisis has shown that the private sector can do good when employed in the right way. Also, wealthy older people should be contributing more to fund their own care and carers should be paid more with better controls on quality. Sadly, whilst the generation born between 1950 and 1964 all believe that they contributed to the system and shouldn't be asked for any more, the actual truth is that they will have taken out 118% of what they paid on average in taxes by the time they die. This is not hating on people older than myself - I would be very happy to inherit less and have a system that treats everyone with dignity in old age.

EC22 · 17/04/2020 19:13

I find it difficult to understand people still supporting the government when the nhs is being asked to reuse single use PPE. It is disgraceful. The government chose not to prepare, it was a choice. 14000 people are now dead because of the choices the government made.
It’s inexcusable.

AvalancheKit · 17/04/2020 19:13

By the way I am a Labour voter.

I can see that the current Government have a significantly more qualified, experienced and skilled quantum of ministers than my party has - and probably has ever had other than a brief period under the Blair/Brown years.

I am fully behind the current Government and that is because I am looking at what they are doing rather than anything else. Keir I have great hopes of, but his time is some way off yet.

Alsohuman · 17/04/2020 19:14

My post about not closing borders, not testing arrivals and importing Rumanian fruit pickers has been deleted? Wtf was wrong with it?

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/04/2020 19:15

How could any government prepare for this.

Who could foresee this

milveycrohn · 17/04/2020 19:18

One of the earlier posts mentioned the 'herd immunity'. I just wanted to add that it was not the Government who said it. It was the scientific or medical officer.
It is a scientific concept, unless you want to stay in lockdown for another 18 months until a vaccine is produced.

tontie · 17/04/2020 19:20

Who could foresee this

apparently loads of posters

tontie · 17/04/2020 19:22

14000 people are now dead because of the choices the government made.
It’s inexcusable.

So you think zero deaths was possible?

Alsohuman · 17/04/2020 19:23

*How could any government prepare for this.

Who could foresee this*

An exercise to test our readiness for exactly this situation was run in 2016. It was called Cygnus. It revealed that the NHS was completely unprepared. And Jeremy Hunt buried it.

Selmaselma · 17/04/2020 19:24

A lot less deaths would have been possible.

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