Social distancing to be the norm "until there is a vaccine"

[Frompcat]

So this is what Neil Ferguson has said today and seems to be being backed up by government distancing. But what does it actually mean, does anyone know? How can social distancing be maintained if schools open again? Will we be able to visit small groups of family? Or are they literally talking about things continuing as they are for 18 months.

I think people badly need some clarity about this. I don't believe the government don't have any ideas of what their options are.

Even if there was no vaccine, the approach would be the same. Balance the need for the economy to survive against the need to protect the vulnerable and keep the number of cases from spiking. In other words, gradually reopen, maintain social distancing, ban large gatherings. Whether that's until a vaccine is available or until 70% of the population has had it and it more or less dies out.

Everyone shouts about vaccines because they want the funding and the subsequent revenue. Doesn’t mean it’s likely there’s going to be an effective vaccine. Of course I’m happy to go along with the expectation that they will be successful in creating one or more, but I’m just saying people are talking as if it’s a given that there’ll be a vaccine by X date. And that’s just not the case. So the world will have to keep turning in the meantime.

And yes, things will get far worse for a whole lot of people if the economy really goes to shit, so vaccine or not that needs to be balanced against protection of the most vulnerable whilst many of the rest of us go back to a less restricted way of life in day-to-day terms.

And yes, things will get far worse for a whole lot of people if the economy really goes to shit

This. Hardship will claim far more lives than the virus ever will if they go past another 4-6 weeks as we are. That aswell as people with other illnesses being left at the bottom of the pile in terms of treatment where Covid has taken priority. At some stage, the Government, CMO and so on, will have to 'reopen' the economy to avoid this. Keep the faith all - especially those that are struggling with the lockdown. It will get better - we will not be like this for 18 months

Frompcat.

Also.
3) There is not any information on long term effects of the virus on anyone.

"LilacTree1

I don’t think the government can supervise behind closed doors

When I was queuing at the shop yesterday, a child was hugging his mum"

You do know you're allowed to hug your own household @LilacTree1? You can even have sex with your partner...

We will be locked down for however long is necessary, people just need to get used to it. This is the new norm now and frankly I like being away from most people so it works for me!

3) There is not any information on long term effects of the virus on anyone.

Sure but what are you going to do about that? You can't keep the world on lockdown til long term effects become apparent.

We will be locked down for however long is necessary, people just need to get used to it.

No we won't because the economy won't function, and if the economy won't function then all healthcare systems will collapse.

I don't know why people don't understand that you can't look at these things in isolation. It isn't a case of either/or.

@Frompcat stuff the economy. Everybody should get their basic necessities covered and have free food until a vaccine is found.

The alternative is thousands of people dying in this country every single day just to keep the precious capitalist money train rolling. It makes me sick how so many people care more about money than lives.

Free food and healthcare paid for how, exactly? The economy is what pays for our public services. People need to earn, it's hardly rampaging capitalism, it's how almost all adults keep themselves and their families fed, clothed, sheltered and healthy.

Thousands of people die every day anyway. Death is a thing. With reasonable measures, once past this peak, there's no reason we can't get life moving again. Those most at risk of death are of an age they aren't expected or able to work anyway.

Posts like that have be a windup, surely? How do you provide everyone with their basic necessities and free food if you have "stuffed the economy"? Surely nobody actually believes it's that simple??

My nine year old does :) 'Why don't they make food free mum' etc. Adults who understand how taxation works, not so much.

The alternative is thousands of people dying in this country every single day just to keep the precious capitalist money train rolling. It makes me sick how so many people care more about money than lives.

This has to be a joke? What is capitalist about earning enouogh money to be able to pay your mortgage/rent and bills? FFS. Get a grip

Morris, the biggest shock for me has been that people are shocked death is a thing.

“ You do know you're allowed to hug your own household @LilacTree1? You can even have sex with your partner...”

Dame

See previous posts.

the biggest shock for me has been that people are shocked death is a thing
Well, quite. We're very priveleged in this country that events like this don't happen more often.

We will be locked down for however long is necessary, people just need to get used to it. This is the new norm now and frankly I like being away from most people so it works for me!

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the government won't be making decisions based on what works for you. If they do keep us locked up for too long, it's going to be down to their sheer incompetence and not your personal preference.

They'll manage it in waves - releasing some sections of society and shutting or closing others at given times. This pattern of wave management will continue for at least 18 months. I work in Health and Social Care, and this is pretty much the general consensus. A vaccine will certainly take over a year to develop. Social distancing will continue for the foreseeable.

It's all a mess. As a parent to young children I do not wish to risk my health as they need me alive. Dramatic as that sounds. None of my family are fit enough to take care of them or they are skint! My partner needs to work full time to support the household. Yes I could die tomorrow but risking a virus killing me is not a gamble I'm keen to take.

Originally they planned herd immunity and claimed it affected the elderly and poorly. Not that they should die at the hands of this virus either! But it is quite clear that young are dying too. Some don't have any known health issues at the time of death. I think it was about 39 deaths without health issues known yesterday. Youngest was 20! The point is we don't know if our immune systems will go crazy and kill us. No child deserves to loose a parent. Also I'm even more scared that children could end up seriously poorly if schools reopen.

It's absolutely crap. I honestly don't see a way out of this without putting us all at risk. Not to mention winter! It's going to be horrible horrible horrible. Everytime we get a fever, cold or cough we will be scared. The testing is crap in this country. There are no mild cases known. We don't know how many have had no symtoms. Theres no recoveries. The only mild cases in the news reported are middle ages adults coughing to death and describing horrible symptoms lasting weeks.

Imagine a single parent catching this and struggling at home to care for the kids.

I don't know the answer but I guess he's right. If we start mixing again before a vaccine many of us will become really ill or die. .

Something isn't adding up in China either. They are staying around 80,000 cases. They have just over 1000 cases still. Everyone else has recovered. The deaths are tiny in their country compared to evrerywhere else. I can't help but think their death rate has mislead people into thinking most survive. As tragic as 3000 deaths in 80,000 are. It's better than 13,000 in 100,000 like we have.

“ Theres no recoveries.”

There’s lots of recoveries, they just don’t say it.

I really wish people wouldn’t state what ‘will’ happen as if they have any fucking idea.

The alternative is thousands of people dying in this country every single day just to keep the precious capitalist money train rolling. It makes me sick how so many people care more about money than lives.

The calculations around the need work and education are unlikely to be much different in socialist or communist countries - just with less personal freedom.

I read in one of the papers this morning , I can't remember which one, that the death toll for March from all causes, including Covid, was lower than the average of the last 5 years.

I really don't think our government know what they are doing.

My 90 year old Dad would not survive 18 months of self-isolation. The last 3 weeks have already seen a decline in his mental faculties. If he is unable to remain at home, what happens then. Put him in a care home and you can pretty much guarantee he will get the virus.

I think the old are really being thrown under the bus. Everyone is blithely saying that we should let healthy people out of lockdown and keep the vulnerable there until a vaccine is developed. Would you like to be in lockdown for the next 18 months?

Sadly, if you look at the situation in care homes, I think that this pandemic has shown how little we value our elderly.

I don't know what the answer is but I do think that the government needs to start thinking about their exit strategy. People will not put up with this indefinitely and as other pps have said the economy will suffer irreparable damage the longer this goes on.

The fact that we now have a health secretary who shouts at a radio presenter because he asked when lockdown might end says it all to me.