What did Rishi mean when he said they can't protect all households?

[TopBitchoftheWitches]

Doesn't sound good imo.

I also think there'll be NIC extended to other forms of income, such as dividends, occupational pensions, property income, etc. For far too long, NIC has only been paid by "workers", who've also been stung for loads of other taxes, such as student loan repayment, workplace pension deductions, child benefit clawback etc. Workers can't bear the brunt of the inevitable tax rises. People with healthy incomes from other sources have broad enough shoulders to start paying more into the pot

I completely agree with this. We can't put all the burden on the younger working generations

I think many non essential companies faced an immediate drop in demand. Not just those that were ordered to close initially (pubs etc).

That's my experience. What the furlough/small business support has done is give them 3 months of breathing space. Any sensible business owner/management will be spending that time on preparing for the new world. Many have already done that, i.e. pubs and restaurants moving into takeaways. Our local Spar shop have rented a van and started doing home deliveries. Lots of businesses have adapted or planning to adapt - they'll come out of this OK, if not better. Other business owners/managers are just sitting on their backsides, living on the support cash, and waiting for the lockdown to be lifted thinking it'll be business as usual afterwards - for most, it won't and they'll be up shit's creek without a paddle when the furlough/support stops.

I'm surprised anyone is shocked by the reality that we will enter into a hugely damaging recession after this. I think Govt support will stop after three months as a way of forcing people back to work – there are reports today that the Chancellor and ministers are shocked by how efficient the public has been at self-isolating - they didn't expect the uptake of furloughing that's happened. We are going to have to pay back all this money that's being doled out through stiff increases in taxes and NI contributions. The interest rate will rise significantly. It's going to be grim for long time.

I don't understand this talk of a "bounce back"

I suppose there's an element of talking up the economy & encouraging people to still spend particularly those that can.

@OctopusArm I agree, it's a large amount. I think we can safely assume that our council tax will rise massively next year.

I'm more worried about what happens next. Once lockdown is lifted and people return to work the virus will start spreading again. How long until we are back at the point where the NHS is at risk of being overwhelmed? And then what? Will we have to lockdown again? How could the government afford to pay for it for a second, even third time? Will we be expected to support ourselves through the next waves?

The tubes in London have decreased massively in frequency and the Mayor keeps saying they are only for key workers to use.

It has occurred to me several times that actually all workers who can't work from home are supposed to be going in.

My friends who have been furloughed include a solicitor and an information analyst. Both jobs that are perfectly possible to do at home (in fact the solicitor works from home all of the time) but their employer has furloughed them regardless. So many employers are furloughing people when they could continue working from home.

For around 1 in 3 of the working age population , the vulnerable who are not shielded , the risk of dying appears to be over 1 in 100

That is not infinitesimal in my book!

@luckylavender I agree that testing is key. Testing and contact tracing which, no, they weren't doing, regardless of what they said. If a business can introduce measures so that staff are socially distanced, can wipe down areas of high traffic regularly then of course that's necessary but the key is having the confidence that you are unlikely to be infected at work. Right now, there's absolutely no way of knowing. Christ, we don't even know how many people are dying, never mind who is infected or has been. When we get to that stage, where we can all find out if we've had it or have it, then we need to go back to work. And we do need to go back to work. The government can't pay people's wages when they are economically inactive, not in the long term.

so tax payers of the future are going to get hammered.

Which is why if you can claim or grab any money in this massive handout right now you should get as much as possible. You’re going to need it when taxes go up

I think he's just being honest about the fact that a lot of people have a very hard time, financially, ahead. TBH the support measures have gone way further than I ever thought possible but there will be people who don't qualify or for whom they were to little or too late. There will be job losses and business failures that may not be a direct result of the virus closure but of the economic downturn that follows.

@user1497207191 undoubtedly. It is exactly what should happen and it is welcomed. I was naming the headline grabbers. In a way we are in a strong position with a lot of the excise duties as they have been held.

I don't understand this talk of a "bounce back" many folk will have no money, will have massive debt and many of those on furlough will be living from hand to mouth, eating into whatever savings they might have.

It makes sense of what Sunak was saying about further measures in the longer term. There will have to be other adjustments in the short and medium term, to get as many back to some kind of work as possible. Longer term there will be tax increases of all sorts.

BUT, simplistocally, as every country is facing the same issues there will have to be some kind of global financial adjustment.

We are not essential in terms of what we manufacture and frankly our whole workforce know it and with the government telling everyone to stay at home, we couldn’t very well contradict

But that's not what was said, they said stay at home if you couldn't do your job otherwise, if proper social distancing could have been achieved your employer had a very strong case to stay open imo.

...In past budgets that should say .

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I think we are just going to have to take our chances.

Why it's so large for every business?

It's not "every" business - it's for business with premises. Business premises cost a fortune - rent, insurance, security, utilities, etc. Even the smallest shop costs thousands in property related expenses alone.

Perhaps the relief should have been proportional to ratable value, so smaller shops/offices got a bit less. But that would have taken time which they govt didn't have. It had to announce and pay support almost immediately to prevent immediate liquidations & permanent closures.

Don't forget that the £10k is taxable, so the govt will get a fair chunk of it back eventually from businesses that it helped survive.

My friends who have been furloughed include a solicitor and an information analyst. Both jobs that are perfectly possible to do at home (in fact the solicitor works from home all of the time) but their employer has furloughed them regardless

Depends who their clients are. If the clients are those who facing big drops in demand then they may well stop with those services. It’s all linked and a fall in demand means they could be at work doing little or home furloughed until demand increases again.

Without furlough they may gave been made redundant.

@user1497207191 It's a grant isn't it? It's not taxable?

Sorry random18 misread your comment.

I don't understand this talk of a "bounce back" many folk will have no money, will have massive debt and many of those on furlough will be living from hand to mouth, eating into whatever savings they might have.

But, likewise, a lot of people have seen no fall in their income, i.e. workers still on full pay, pensioners, etc. Maybe over half the population won't have been financially affected.

they didn't expect the uptake of furloughing that's happened

Telling business that they can keep staff but someone else will pay for them...... if the Govt really was surprised then they are idiots, its a no brainer.
Companies would have been faced with huge redundancy payouts OR the govt would have been paying these out instead plus benefits.

We are going to have to pay back all this money that's being doled out through stiff increases in taxes and NI contributions

So long as its the wealthy that bare the brunt of these taxes, then fine, the rich have done extremely well since 2008.

So people may lose their homes?

No some people WILL lose their homes.

Plenty of renters will. Plenty of small business owners will.

There are mass layoffs coming.

I work for a small business. We dont deal with the public and potentially could have kept open....except all our customers (many are shops) closed and others cancelled orders....so there was no incoming work.