What did Rishi mean when he said they can't protect all households?

[TopBitchoftheWitches]

Doesn't sound good imo.

Not all factories are open though. DH works in manufacturing and his workplace is closed. He was surprised actually as thought it would stay open. But no. he is self employed but he majority of the employees have been furloughed on 80%.

Because he's a bastard Tory. Survival of the fittest.

Other countries have introduced various forms of universal citizen’s payment for the duration of the crisis. Why can’t we do that? I’d have thought a simple scheme that everyone gets x amount would be much cheaper in terms of bureaucracy than the business loans that no-one can claim and the furlough scheme that is being abused.

I mean this nicely but why are you surprised?? We cannot financially help every person. I also can't see how furlough can be continued after its initial period. It's take up was far wider than expected.

A universal payment would only have been at most a similar amount to NMW though, some peoples mortgages are more than that.

It just means he knows people are on their kneesd without a penny of state help, companies going bust and all sorts. People just seem to see the carnage of a covid ward on TV but the other side of this is the destruction of lives.

He also thinks the message that everyone can and shoudl work unless they could work from home (most people can't work from home) or are in a banned caregory like pubs (or have covid 19) has not got through. Those working still and paying tax are the heroes paying nurses.

The problem with the UK is we have quite enjoyed being at home with the children or with feet up - particularly those on furlough or otherwise being paid and it is going to be extremely hard to force those people back to work when we go back. I suspect it will have to be lots of sticks and withdrawal of the furlough carrot. I believe the UK has embraced this being at home and complied more than most European states with over 90% compliance. In a sense we like it too much. An Englishman's home is his castle as the phrase goes.

I suspect there is going to come a point when if you don't go back to work you will not be paid as the only way to get a lot of people back to work.

The company I work for has stayed open with longer hours, (weekend opening), so fewer people in at any one time and put in extra distancing measures, those that could wfh.

There were wails of but we're not key workers...

@Itsjustmee What do you mean that SE won't be able to claim if they run their business from home? I haven't seen that in the eligibility criteria.

I think we can certainly say furlough payments will not/cannot continue after the initial 3 months. Some businesses did seem to take up too quickly when a little more assessment of risk and adjustments in the workplace could have happened. Smaller businesses definitely did it but this was, in some instances, born out of necessity due to the lack of financial help. Larger businesses looked at numbers and made decisions based on keeping shareholders appeased. If Nightingales are becoming operational and are nowhere near capacity and the numbers are stabilising we should surely see some lessening of restrictions?

Neither had I. I think you can claim the SE grant for the 12 weeks period if your se from home? Where does that leave the SE cleaners/plumbers/painter decorators etc otherwise? The thing is if your workplace is in someone’s home then you can ‘technically go to work’ under the lockdown rules but realistically it’s not possible is it? If people aren’t allowed their own family round for a cuppa they can hardly have tradesmen and women going in and out of multiple houses. I’m amazed anyone is still having their cleaners round.

There were wails of but we're not key workers

The abuse that was handed out for even contemplating continuing to trade our business.

Based on the experiences elsewhere, furlough should not be necessary beyond the 12 weeks

The first 12 weeks should be enough time to seriously squash the virus, and get in place mechanisms to allow people to return to work albeit with some restrictions and controls. Pressure for example to ensure the people working from home stay there I would guess, as this helps reduce transport pressures and reduces any virus uptick.

There will still be issues around big gatherings i suspect, arts and sport events, I would hope help remains for these. Tourism and restaurants within the Uk should be able to pick up, perhaps with some number controls at busy places. It should be a slow uplift as there will be a need to monitor constantly.

There will be a recession, the virus has guaranteed that, and this is where it will get difficult to protect everybody. I have to say though that over my life the handling of recessions has got better. I saw unemployment rates of 25% in my home area in the late 80's and the early 70's were fun as a child with no power, but my mother found it rather stressful keeping food on the table.

Hells, that is likely to me too and if we are 3 weeks behind some of the other outbreaks where in those nations they are opening up again (Spain and Austria) then that might be our timescale unless we think that means we'd have to lock down yet again in future. I don't think we would have a second lock down in the UK particularly as even now we have capacity in the NHS and given people going back are likely to be more careful than usual about being close to each other so we might have a longer initial one. I would go for reopening on 5 May but I think the cabinet is split between that and after the end of May bank holiday.

You would not be able to claim the business grant if you don’t have premises as you are not subject to Business Rates. Working from home is not a bar to claiming, your work must be your main income and you must have completed you SA return, from what I understand.

I think he was referring to the "in between" businesses - not those who have been ordered to close nor those who obviously need to stay open (like food shops and pharmacies). A lot of these businesses have opted to close - next online (although it is now reopening), building trade suppliers, etc. We were due to have two bits of external work done in the past few weeks - some fencing and some repairs to the outside of the house to stop water coming in (which has now caused a lot of interior damage). Both tradesmen said they were willing to work but couldn't get hold of the materials they need. So presumably the suppliers will be claiming furlough payments and the tradesmen will also be claiming government support. When with some adjustments those businesses could surely have safely stayed open.

@Bluntness100 Factories and offices shut down, when they should not have done so

We shut down (manufacturing) during the week after lockdown was announced. We are not essential in terms of what we manufacture and frankly our whole workforce know it and with the government telling everyone to stay at home, we couldn’t very well contradict. We could possibly continue manufacturing whilst practising SD but the risk would be high and v unnecessary. The rest of the plant in offices are far too close to each other and we all use desktops so couldn’t WFH. It was definitely not an easy decision to make. This could be catastrophic for our business. Once we go back it will take us at least 18 months, if not years, to recover from this.

I would be very surprised if they extended financial help beyond the initial period.

It’s a hard situation with pressures from both sides.

Yes agree with the recent posters. @Itsjustmee is wrong with this statement.
SE business that run from home and not a separate business address for those who aren’t eligible for help.

So much judgment and bitterness towards those of us who have been furloughed! Is this like the judgment of people on benefits? Oh they must all be lazy feckers who just don’t want to work?

No I don’t bloody enjoy it! I feel bored, sad and useless. Not everyone in my workplace was furloughed so I’m also feeling a bit paranoid (as though I was somehow less valuable than my colleagues). I need to be at work for my mental stimulation and social interaction. Being at home all day every day can quickly lead to depression for me.
I can’t wait to get back to work!

I think definitely some business could have stayed open and helped their staff social distance.

But then you have got very loud voices who are still shouting for us to all be locked in our houses until the virus is no more.

The damage to any company which stayed open could be very costly. So they probably took the furlough to try and keep their business afloat.

You only need to look on the many schools threads to see how far removed from reality many people on here are. Its the same on other social media.

Yet anyone who wants school to open after 1/2 term are selfish and don't care about the teachers.

OhYouBadBadKitten
Sorry I mean I read that if SE you can’t get the small business grants If it’s a personal property that you work from

But you could still get the other help as SE
I read it on here when they initially started helping buy this may have changed

Right now there is a significant problem simply because people stopped working, companies shut down, when they were supposed to keep working.

I agree with this plus it's likely that an awful lot of businesses who were struggling before this have actually been given a bit of a life line.
I was surprised the furloughing was so generous & also can't see it continuing for very long.
Even if they wanted to how could the government possibly save every job & business?

I'm just shocked by his statement tbh It has been said by others on that podium too, from the beginning. They have consistently said they will do all they can, that help will change, be modified to met the situation (which it has a couple of times so far) but that they will not be able to guarante that every business will come through afterwards or that all households will be fully protected.

And he said no to Univesal basic income, and explained why.

SE business that run from home and not a separate business address Oh but I do, and have had my email from HMRC about how to go about claiming for it! I won't get the grants etc, obviously as I don't have preomises, but I will get the 80% of my average income over 3 years, up to £2500.

I hope that was just a misunderstanding... too many friends who are SE are already panicking over misinformation!

There are going to be huge issues, a deep recession, probably a global debt relief programme and we are all going to have to work with it. Taxes wil be higher, once as many of us are back in work as is practical but, as he said last night, they are working on how to manage that to reduce the impact on the country's financial status.

To think that they won't be looking at that is a bit like those journalists who ask why something hasn't been done, as if the range of experts we see and those we don't have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever! And then even insist they are right, even when the explanation has been given, almost as if they didn't understand the answer, let alone the reality of the problem in the first place (and yes Mr Peston, that definitely includes you!)

@Bluntness100 Absolutely spot on.

I had so many friends saying but you're not a key worker you shouldn't be going in to work. Nowhere on the official government website did it state that key workers are the only ones to continue working.

I believe that we will be paying for this for decades to come.

Hellswithbigbells
Explained it better than me apologies everyone
If you work from home you can claim for the SE help
But You would not be able to claim the business grant if you don’t have premises as you are not subject to Business Rates.
Sorry if I scared anyone