What did Rishi mean when he said they can't protect all households?

[TopBitchoftheWitches]

Doesn't sound good imo.

Personally I find it worrying. DH workplace have had to close fully the week same week as lockdown. They are a training provider and due to social distancing and other businesses not wanting to take the risk, they simply have no one to train. Therefore they have absolutely no work for any of the employees and no way of generating any income. They providing training for most the big companies including county councils, but everyone cancelled their training courses in the week leading up to lockdown and then the final few cancelled once lock down was announced. Without government support the business would fold, without furlough its completely impossible to pay any of the employees. Baring in mind the company runs on the minimum required employees anyways and keeps costs as minimal as possible in general.

I'm also worried how we pay this back eventually as I know Sunak has already hinted at it.

Tax rates will rise for all, personal and business, as will VAT, duties, etc. NIC will be extended to other income not just wages.

Those businesses currently exempt from business rates due to small business relief, and who've received the £10k, will almost certainly have to pay more business rates in future - the full exemption given to the smallest businesses will be reduced/removed.

There'll be no single group expected to pay for all the debt being racked up - all forms of tax will rise and be extended to more people, so everyone will pay a bit more, old & young, rich & poor, businesses, employees, pensioners, etc etc. Not only have we the debt to start repaying, but also the extra funding that people are demanding for the NHS.

There's been pressure for the last few decades for lower taxation. After all this, the voters will be forgiving to a government that has to raise taxes across the board - more than at any other time in recent history. The govt have a once in a lifetime opportunity to raise taxes for all as there'll be very little opposition, so they'll have to grab it with both hands. Be very afraid of the next Budget speech!

I also read a news report the other day hinting at triple lock pensions being stopped to more fairly distribute the burden

Yes Kazzy that's exactly what I worry about re the business rates. I currently don't pay any- I'd rather not have had the £10k and it remain that way as it will cripple me every month. I physically need an outlet for my business. According tho the business rate checker website- my builder friend would pay £400 a year in rates. He doesn't NEED the office to operate it's just his wife got fed up of the paperwork all over. He can leave his premises (with his £10k) and still have a business. I'm very worried.

I also read a news report the other day hinting at triple lock pensions being stopped to more fairly distribute the burden

A trivial drop in the ocean that won't touch the sides of the debt. Obviously every little helps but alienating a few million people relying on state pension isn't going to be popular. Far more likely to charge NIC on occupational pensions, so that the "richer" pensioners with one or more decent occupational pensions on top of their state pensions have to pay more tax. There'll be a lot less public support for people like retired GPs with a £50k p.a. occupational pension whinging about having to pay a few percent of it in NIC!

yes, Kazzy, those of us who have not benefited, no furlough, no self employed support and who don't need or use the NHS ( I have seen my GP once in 15 years which probably cost me £100k in tax- expensive 10 minutes, at least) will be paying huge amounts of extra tax so we have the funds to pay for the NHS care of those sick, old and obese people we saved this year who will likely be sick or dying next year anyway. I hope those we save think it is worth it and are grateful.

Xenia- You do realise anyone can get this virus ??

and obese people

Most of us after lockdown then :)

😂

@Kazzyhoward yes I understand that is would be a drop in the ocean but can you imagine the resentment if pensions still rise but people working and the young people this is going to affect for years to come are stagnating?

@Xenia I pay tax and worked for the NHS for 10 years. Currently furloughed - my wage is my only income
I am in the shielded group but am neither sick or dying any time soon. I'm not grateful to anyone apart from the furlough payment and the NHS for the work they do
I claim nothing. Not even free prescriptions as I'm not entitled to them
I hope you don't ever get hit with a sudden life altering diagnosis like I did, in the middle of your life

Obese and soon to be alcoholic. I've got not hope!!

I pay a lot more than I get back though. Don't mind it. Its all part of being lucky enough to be in the UK.

I think a good short term solution for some would be to allow a one off withdrawal of £X or % amount from your pension scheme. It is then your money, not the governments that you are accessing. I am not suggesting huge amounts but maybe up to say £5k or 10% or something like that. Most people have some pension provision now Auto Enrolment has been running for a couple of years.

I accept some people have DB schemes so it won’t apply to them but they are mostly government jobs anyway so shouldn’t need to.

This could make a lot of difference to those really struggling

Do you think older people will be happy to pay more though? I find the outrage about means testing the BBC fee quite surprising.

Exactly, what you get back for all the tax that you pay is that you live in a modern liberal democracy.
You live in a country that affords a pathway towards the opportunity to become wealthy enough to become liable for all that tax that you pay.

Well the sooner we all get back to work and school the better, all this nonsense about we all have to stay at home until 2021 or there is a vaccine and social structure won’t break down and the economy will be just fine, is not true and cracks are starting to show. we need to start getting things back to normal.

Agree with Birdbrain (not so birdbrainned )

Just remember that it isn’t the government giving their money, but the government giving ours. He has given as much help as he can without opening it up to fraud an CF’ery. I’m sure when it is over, and hindsight is 20/20 many will say he should have done XY&Z. There are going to be instances of fraud and unfairness. But would it be fair for someone paid minimum wages in a supermarket, or cleaning a hospital to subsidise a self employed person to 80% of £30k 🤷‍♀️

Ask the cleaner if they want to pay someone who is much richer than they are for the next 50 years.

Just to add, I thing he has been as generous as he can be in the time he has had to put it together and has got the overall balance right. There are going to be some who miss out, which is sad.

We have taxation systems because we recognise that wealth is generated collectively but often bypasses the pockets of those who do the most necessary work.

@TopBitchoftheWitches

Rishi Sunak isn’t Santa. We don’t live in a fairytale and Government’s can’t wave a magic wand to make all the bad things go away! I’m assuming you’re not 5 years old.

People are literally redundant. There is nothing for them to do. Except there is. From volunteering to fruit picking.

Even now the government is helping fly in Romanian pickers to ensure farmers get their crops in. And that's after there was a nationwide plea for English people to do it, just this once. It is cheaper to fly in foreign pickers than it is to let the farmers go bankrupt and their crops get wasted!

And we will pay for that through taxes, eventually...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8219645/Plane-Romanian-fruit-pickers-land-Stansted-tomorrow-farm-labourer-vacancies.html

Volunteering perhaps, as there are varied roles and hours there. But a person having no work in their own role doesn't mean fruit picking is a viable option for them. It's done in specific locations, requires a degree of physical stamina and there's no current provision to combine it with childcare responsibilities. No doubt some people whose jobs have temporarily or permanently disappeared could do it, but just because we have labour shortages in certain areas doesn't mean the labour surplus can fill it.

I think people did close down more than was actually required.

We run a factory & although we could see that with some social distancing & improvements in hygiene etc we could keep production going most of our customers have closed up shop so we had no choice but to follow suit and furlough nearly all our staff.

If we have no work there's nothing we can do, a lot of suppliers are very short of materials too and will only supply if you are making essential items. The furlough payments (or at least the promise of them, we've seen no money as yet and we pay the factory staff weekly) is certainly allowing us to keep people's jobs safe in the short term, if that stops we will have to let people go as we just don't have the money to pay people to do nothing.

@curiousaboutsamphire I saw that story I wonder how much they are paying? It seems ridiculous to fly people in