This blind following of 'The Rules' is going to backfire when lockdown ends

[OtterPotter]

I have been really concerned at the attitudes I've seen on here and in RL of people's blind following of 'The Rules'.

The mentality I have seen here including outrage at people dancing in a park, or refusing to go for a picnic with their own children in a secluded spot because it's "AGAINST THE RULES!" demonstrates a complete inability to risk assess and interpret the guidelines.

What worries me is that same mentality will prevail when lockdown is lifted, and those same people will blindly follow the new rules and fail to appreciate that the risk is still real.

The day lockdown is lifted, the risk to yourself of catching it, and the risk of you spreading it to others remains exactly the same. The only thing that will have changed is that the government will have decided that the peak has passed, and the pressure on the NHS is lower - so they can allow YOU to risk catching it now. It can still kill you, it can still kill your family.

I'm deeply concerned that I'm going to have to have this battle with my rule obsessed family to try and convince them that they are still very much in danger.

People of limited capacity will be unable to facilitate the type of critical thought necessary to apply guidelines like this safely within the law.

This is, in my recent dismal experience, absolutely true

In ‘normal’ daily life that’s not such a problem - there’s room enough in the world for everyone regardless of intellectual capability. In these unusual circumstances, however, it isn’t helpful to have hordes of lemming-brained individuals running around trying to police everyone else’s quite sound and sensible behaviour.

Nail hit. On head

I can't take the credit - nicked it from somewhere else on here 

I love it anyway 😉

I'm worried that some people will think that the lifting of lockdown will mean that the virus has suddenly disappeared

I entirely agree with @OtterPotter - one of the most chilling things this crisis has highlighted to me is people's lack of critical thought, they are either unable or unwilling to read/see the news and understand it, understand the process behind it.

We should be educating people so as to properly assess risks and to act in such a way as to reduce risks as much as possible rather than to follow rules blindly

Good luck with that. There are plenty of arrogant pricks who won't take heed, regardless of the facts they are presented with not to mention those of limited mental capacity who would never understand even if they wanted to. The only way to deal with the worst offenders is police action.

"I am curious - those who think they are so much cleverer than other people - how do you explain your superior intelligence?"

Genetics?

Actually a lot of people are sensible. Lockdown is working, whatever the stasi would have you believe about the murderous sausage-roll eaters and riverside picnickers. Luckily this stuff is about broad population-level compliance, not the numpties ignoring it totally. Or indeed all us terribly clever people on this thread who believe we have such superior risk assessment skills that we can do stuff like avoid crowded supermarkets and come back another time, even on the same day. You are safe from our monumental arrogance, don't worry.

Yes I was just going to say there are a lot of people who with all the best will in the world, simply couldn’t be taught this level of critical thought.

There is no such thing as 'common sense'.

Teens - great. But mum and I would rather see each other and it’s fear of a fine and/or criminal record that stops us

When the lockdown is lifted there will be nothing stopping you. Your choice...

More seriously, having higher levels of education is precisely about stuff like making educated assessments of risk and of what experts tell us about a situation. If we had a better education system, we'd have fewer people behaving like numpties and less need for public health messages to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

but what happens when 50 households all make that same judgment call and all end up in the same remote spot?

What would YOU do in that (extremely unlikely) situation? Maybe..not sit down and move somewhere else? It's that sort of comment that makes my eyes roll so hard in my head they might actually fall out.

Me too.

The reality is that there are a huge variety of appropriate actions for different people, based on their environment, lifestyles and personal risks. Some people will need to go much further than the government guidelines to stay safe or keep others around them safe. Others won't.

Which is why we have a minimum standard that everyone must adhere to. That's the law. It's that that that forbids those things that are totally unacceptable right now. We all should follow that.

And then we have guidelines on top of that that give a guide of how you might stay safe/keep others safe. Just a guide. Not a rule. Not a law. A guide. They can be reviewed and assessed and applied to your life as you think appropriate. Some will follow them to the letter. Others will go further. Others will not go as far. I'd suggest all have a moral obligation to remain as safe as they can, within reason, and not to put others at undue harm. But all can, and will, interpret how to do that slightly differently - but all must be within the law.

The only way to deal with the worst offenders is police action.

Sadly this is true.

Some people will never be told anything and are arrogant and selfish. Some, like my coughing upstairs neighbour, simply refuse to believe that the rules apply to them.

When the police take action against them they will end up being accused of being like the Stasi, but I don't see what else they can do.

Given the nightmare situation with my upstairs neighbour and some other neighbours I can only say that if I was in charge I would have taken very decisive action some time ago. I am not in charge and I can only try to avoid the most dangerous of my neighbours as best I can. It is terrifying.

Even so I think that we should be using our cognitive skills to develop ways of educating people about risk and helping them to develop critical thinking skills. It is not easy, but I think more could have been done earlier. Now we are moving into the time scale where it is just too late, at lest for tenants where I live

I agree, OP.

And I know I'll be in danger of getting it a lot faster when the 'Rules' are lifted because of the many people I have seen on here that mirror society ... who will demand to immediately send their children back to school without thought for teaching staffs. I've worked so hard to keep myself and my family safe, and take great care when I'm in school to keep the required distance from the key worker children we look after and disinfect and 'rest' everything that is used before they're allowed to use them again. But I know the pressure will be immense from many quarters to force us to take more children into the schools quickly, and we can't keep safety measures in place if even half come back...

Yes (sigh). People are so stupid as to think the end of lockdown means the virus has disappeared?

This virus does not decrease with warmer seasons, as normal viruses do. That's been shown in research.

Will lockdown end and everything return to normal?

Not if other countries are anything to go by (ignore the nutter in the White House). It will be gradual and slow, to continue to protect the vulnerable. Cases will spike again, but not to the previous heights. That's all we can hope for until an effective vaccine is found and reliable testing.

We are all still in the dark about the virus, but the number of deaths makes many people cautious.

Yes I'm rural, I can imagine but probably have no idea how awful it is for the majority of people

How do you define majority?

I'm into week 5 now of being home, yes I've had moments of sheer hell but it's just moments. It's such a short period of time and it's for the greater good.

The above discussion of personal risk versus societal risk is the crux of the matter. For us it's both, we assess our own risk but we have enough compassion to realise it's not all about us, it's about society, even the rule breakers.

I attempted to discuss risk with some tenants here when the outbreak first started to spread beyond China.

I was told off for frightening tenants. "We don't want people to panic" I was advised.

While panicking is never helpful, neither are false reassurances and an ostrich position.

I feel that where I live we are soon going to be paying a very horrible price for not wanting to panic people.

" "You can now go out to a café or pub" there will be people who do so daily because they say it wouldn't be allowed if it wasn't safe. "

I think we will also do it because we know that going in and out of lockdown is a possibility so some of us will take as much advantage as we can if lockdown is relaxed.

I think that there is such a thing as 'common sense' but it should be renamed 'folk wisdom'
I hope that this rebranding helps us to deal with this phenomena more appropriately

I think we'll end up with rules like if you've got green eyes you can go out on a Tuesday but not if it's raining, people with children under the age of 10 can only have one bread maker etc

Teens yes, it will be our choice when lockdown

But it should be our choice now.

In fact, I’m willing to be a test case but poor mum might have heart attack if I go to jail 😂

thigh ordinary people I guess. Most of the UK don’t live in a space that is an uncrowded as what the OP has. To control health with social distancing is great - shutting the park or police patrolling the park doesn’t help it. Many people are more likely to go to the shops to get a change of scene from their 400 sq feet.

But Im concerned that their attitude will switch to "Of course we can do that now, the RULES say we can" which will immediately put them at risk.

I really don't think this will be the case OP majority of people following the rules word for word are because they're scared. When the lockdown is lifted people will still be scared so will probably not go back to normal life just because we can

Gwen “ You can now go out to a café or pub" there will be people who do so daily because they say it wouldn't be allowed if it wasn't safe. "

So what? The virus isn’t stopping.

Go once a day, go never...who cares.

People saying things like this - what would you like to happen in terms of restrictions in future?

Lilac - I never said people shouldn't go everyday did I?

Wow if only you were in charge wouldn't the world be a better place?

Sorry Gwen, I don’t know what you’re saying, but if you want to explain it to me, I’m happy to listen. Of course I understand if you don’t want to.

This whole thread baffles me tbh.

When lockdown is lifted, anyone with half a brain knows they can still catch it and spread it. They will do as they please with that information.

People need to understand the risks as far they can though, so they can actually decide for themselves once they are allowed to. Going out because they think it must be safe if they are allowed to go is a misunderstanding.

No one really knows what the long term risks are and people should also understand that. Long term neurological damage or the virus re emerging as something else years after infection are possibilities, hopefully that won't manifest.