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This blind following of 'The Rules' is going to backfire when lockdown ends

217 replies

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 09:28

I have been really concerned at the attitudes I've seen on here and in RL of people's blind following of 'The Rules'.

The mentality I have seen here including outrage at people dancing in a park, or refusing to go for a picnic with their own children in a secluded spot because it's "AGAINST THE RULES!" demonstrates a complete inability to risk assess and interpret the guidelines.

What worries me is that same mentality will prevail when lockdown is lifted, and those same people will blindly follow the new rules and fail to appreciate that the risk is still real.

The day lockdown is lifted, the risk to yourself of catching it, and the risk of you spreading it to others remains exactly the same. The only thing that will have changed is that the government will have decided that the peak has passed, and the pressure on the NHS is lower - so they can allow YOU to risk catching it now. It can still kill you, it can still kill your family.

I'm deeply concerned that I'm going to have to have this battle with my rule obsessed family to try and convince them that they are still very much in danger.

OP posts:
LilacTree1 · 14/04/2020 12:35

Teens - great. But mum and I would rather see each other and it’s fear of a fine and/or criminal record that stops us.

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:36

I couldn’t go to the supermarket and decide the queue was too long and I’d go back later because what if my neighbours see? That's awful, you're having your own power of choice and ability to risk assess and make safer choices accordingly stripped away from you Sad

OP posts:
LilacTree1 · 14/04/2020 12:37

OP, some of your responses suggest you’re not aware what the majority of us are up against with this lockdown. You mention gates and so on so I’m guessing you’re rural?

Gwynfluff · 14/04/2020 12:37

Fanthorpe loads of evidence that we are too clean now. And antibiotics don’t treat viruses but may be misused and prescribed for them.

So it’s a fine balance. And it’s looking likely, to be honest, that it’s droplet spread from being coughed out and particularly easily passed on with very close contact in crowded areas. They aren’t sure about the ‘smearing’ of it on surfaces as the main transition route.

Of course, good hygiene with normal soap and bleach based products is good (not antibacterials). But on its own, not enough to stop this virus at least.

Also better diet and plentiful food, universal healthcare, prevention of pregnancy and vaccines have massively helped the population go from 1.5 billion to where were are now in 100 years.

Walkaround · 14/04/2020 12:40

Of course the OP is rural - she wouldn't know all the quiet roads and deserted spots, otherwise. Nor would going through “town” involve opening gates and walking through people’s farmyards. Grin

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:40

Perhaps you need to try to get through to your parents then, if they have control over who does and doesn’t come into contact with them?

Yes I think I'll have to - I think lockdown will continue for a while anyway so I'm going to start those discussions soon so that they're fully on board. I did the same before the government announced the shielding for the over 70s - they were resistant at first then they understood it and got on board.

I’ve come to the conclusion quite a while back that I simply won’t worry about it - until such a time as I have to freak out, I’m just going to ride out the storm

I'll try and do the same!

OP posts:
MeganBacon · 14/04/2020 12:40

I agree with you. Governments are trying to tread a fine line between giving those who need it (or want it) a very clear soundbite-style instruction, and removing all ability to take responsibility for yourself/interpret sensibly.

Ninkanink · 14/04/2020 12:41

Oh let’s not get onto the subject of the Police! Let’s not pretend they actually know what they’re doing. A great number of them are utter numpties with little to no understanding of the law and I’d venture e to no understanding of legislation relevant to our current situation - the level to which some have been over reaching is genuinely frightening, but not at all surprising. And yet the lemming-brained people will be looking to the police to protect them and guide them. Laughable.

1984looms · 14/04/2020 12:42

I am curious - those who think they are so much cleverer than other people - how do you explain your superior intelligence?

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:43

OP, some of your responses suggest you’re not aware what the majority of us are up against with this lockdown. You mention gates and so on so I’m guessing you’re rural?

Yes I'm rural, I can imagine but probably have no idea how awful it is for the majority of people. My point remains though - its not about whether i can do things that others can't - it's about whether people who are angrily berating people for following made up rules will be the ones who will then blindly follow the new 'rules' straight into danger.

OP posts:
LilacTree1 · 14/04/2020 12:44

walk I haven’t read the whole thread.

OP are you not happy for your parents to make their own decisions?

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:45

A great number of them are utter numpties with little to no understanding of the law and I’d venture e to no understanding of legislation relevant to our current situation - the level to which some have been over reaching is genuinely frightening, but not at all surprising

That police officer telling people they couldn't be in their garden for one example. Police checking people's shopping trolleys is another.

Tell me officer, how exactly is the chocolate in my shopping basket while I've come out on my once a week shop to buy groceries in any way increasing virus transmission?

OP posts:
HelloItsmeAgain1 · 14/04/2020 12:46

Yes but the rules won't be "you must now go to every cafe and hug your elderly relatives".

B1rdbra1n · 14/04/2020 12:46

There are numpties everywhere and most of the police are probably just trying to do the best they can in a situation that they did not anticipate and we're not specifically trained or prepared for.
They are in a position of power where the public have expectations of them, everyone was scrambling and reeling trying to cope with the new situation.
I'm not trying to excuse the police but really so many people and organisations have been caught with their pants down here

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:47

OP are you not happy for your parents to make their own decisions? Yes of course - but I'd rather not watch them get infected and die because other people in my family are stupid.

OP posts:
CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate · 14/04/2020 12:47

Haven't read full thread but reading your original post I agree with you OP 100% Many people have applied not critical thinking or analysis or individual discretion to the rules and will conclude that they can take risks after lockdown because rules have changed.

They have bypassed the spirit of the rues for strict adherence.

Gwynfluff · 14/04/2020 12:47

@PepePig what evidence are you using for ‘huge’ part of the population?

Good evidence we have been compliant as a population. Incidence of mental health difficulties in the population is very high anyway 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 - so managing that is important. No reports of social unrest as yet, which are happening in some countries.

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:50

I'm not trying to excuse the police but really so many people and organisations have been caught with their pants down here

I agree, and to be fair the police have on the whole been great. It's a horrible unprecedented situation for all of us. There are bound to be some mistakes.

Yes but the rules won't be "you must now go to every cafe and hug your elderly relatives" - I think the conversation I imagine having is trying to persuade my family that they really shouldn't be hugging elderly relatives. Based on the conversations I've already had along the lines of "You can't do XYZ because the rules say you can't" i fear that the response will be "Oh don't be ridiculous, the lockdown is over, the rules say it's ok now"...

OP posts:
Fanthorpe · 14/04/2020 12:51

Gwynfluff

I’m not sure I made myself clear if that’s what you’ve taken from what I posted. I’m well aware of public health education.

What I was trying to say is that in general the population are unaware of bacterial and viral transmission vectors. Basic principles of cleanliness are not well observed in public spaces which is why illnesses such as winter vomiting bugs, and also other corona viruses are transmitted so readily.

JollyHostess · 14/04/2020 12:53

Coronastasi

Excellent OP 😂

ShootsFruitAndLeaves · 14/04/2020 12:55

The rules are there because in aggregate they are designed to effect the necessary reduction in viral transmission. Within that context individual conformance isn't particularly critical.

'Please don't meet others' didn't work before the law was brought in because most people didn't understand or didn't care about the issue. But some of us chose not to visit our mothers on Mothers' day because it was obviously fucking stupid, even though it wasn't then illegal.

The passing of a law doesn't make a difference to that basic equation on a personal level except insofar as there are now possible consequences to doing the same things we might have done before, such as going to a quiet spot for a picnic, so we need to bear that in mind as well.

hoodathunkit · 14/04/2020 12:55

Depends if they are following rules because they are concerned about the virus in a way that also motivates critical thinking, or if they misunderstand the purpose of the rules and think the rules are all that is needed to protect them.

I think in many cases it's not a lack of critical thinking. It's recognising that just because one person or household having a little picnic seems low risk, once we start to allow all sorts of exceptions it is a slippery slope to a place where many infractions are significant in risk.

You raise important points.

The tenants where I live are elderly or otherwise vulnerable and many completely misunderstand the rules and the reasons for them.

Their theories and (mis)understandings range from a belief that it is all a big hysterical exaggeration, the 2 metre rule is ony if people are coughing and of they are not then it is fine to be close to them, children do not present a risk because reasons, I mean children dontcha just love em? etc etc There is also a belief amongst some that familes and family bonds can make people immune from risk especially at easter.

Most people I know who are trying hard to comply with the rules are very aware indeed that the govt guidance doesn't necessarily reflect risk, and they were locking down before being advised to. So I am sure they will be the same if rules are lessened.

This is my understanding. I understand that the 2 metre rule will not keep me safe. I keep as much distance between me and others as a possibly can. Some people are extremely grateful and say thank you when I go out of my way to put as big a distance as I can between me and them. Others become personally offended, as if I am accusing them of "having it"

While exercising recently a tennis ball rolled past me followed, after a while by a dog and the 2 men walking it. At a safe distance I said "once upon a time I would have kicked the ball to you, how times change"

At which point they became very offended and went into one about how I could never "get it" from a tennis ball.

I explained that I could "pass it" to them, not just them to me and that we all had to consider ourselves as infected so as to protect others. They were embarrassed and gave me a half-hearted apology.

But you may be right that there is a section of rule followers, and even some very slight rule benders, who think differently. I have come across some people on here who say things like, oh if you could catch it off shopping items we would have been told to clean them, or who think that because we are allowed to exercise 2m from others that must be completely safe. I agree they don't grasp the compromises and wider societal perspective in the govt approach. They actually believe the govt is advising based on total individual risk.

absolutely

I think there has been a failure of education re this. We should be educating people so as to properly assess risks and to act in such a way as to reduce risks as much as possible rather than to follow rules blindly, even of to do so is risky

Alsohuman · 14/04/2020 12:55

You’re absolutely right, OP. Going forward we could really do with teaching kids how to analyse and assess risk and think about why rules exist and whether or not following them to the letter makes any sense.

Ninkanink · 14/04/2020 12:56

I am curious - those who think they are so much cleverer than other people - how do you explain your superior intelligence?

Well that’s quite simple isn’t it - intelligence exists on a gradient.

People of limited capacity will be unable to facilitate the type of critical thought necessary to apply guidelines like this safely within the law.

In ‘normal’ daily life that’s not such a problem - there’s room enough in the world for everyone regardless of intellectual capability. In these unusual circumstances, however, it isn’t helpful to have hordes of lemming-brained individuals running around trying to police everyone else’s quite sound and sensible behaviour. Maybe that’s too harsh. Maybe I should switch to using the term ‘lemming-like behaviour’ instead as that describes action rather than individual.

I don’t think being smart makes one a better person or a more worthy or decent individual at all - certainly not as a matter of course. I fully understand that intellectual ability is only one aspect of humanity, and there are many other qualities one might have that might well be more valuable than cleverness. I’m being harsh in my tone here simply because of the context within which this discussion is taking place - I’m fed up of all the screeching by people who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about.

OtterPotter · 14/04/2020 12:59

Coronastasi

Excellent OP 😂

I can't take the credit - nicked it from somewhere else on here Grin

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