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It's predicted we might well be the worst affected country in Europe

253 replies

KenDodd · 12/04/2020 19:26

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52261859

OP posts:
lovelyupnorth · 12/04/2020 22:38

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/amp/

It’s panning out pretty much to plan.

We’re royally fucked we didn’t act when it first hit Europe. Even though a pandemic has been over due for a while.

BrandyandBabycham · 12/04/2020 22:40

What is ODFOD?

Cremebrule · 12/04/2020 22:42

It was inevitable that the U.K. would get the virus relatively early and hard given international travel, densely populated areas etc although If you look at the regional data, it is still very mixed.

The government have done some things right and i don’t think anyone could say it would have been different under a different leader here. Without seeing all the data, it’s also difficult to criticise the decision re heard immunity. Ultimately the government has to look at things on a population level and not individual and it may have been that the impact of a high number of deaths was judged as being the lesser of two evils re lockdown. Unless something radical changes, there isn’t a viable exist plan really. Things can’t stay like this for another year.

However, when the inevitable inquiry happens there will be big questions about half term travel, allowing big events, ppe, testing approach and seemingly ignoring the 2016 exercise recommendations and chronic underfunding of the health service.

While those are all big, for me PPE is a disaster. I know people who have quit their jobs because they didn’t feel the ppe was adequate and could financially afford to not take the risk. We are asking a hell of a lot of health professionals as it is. They should be properly protected to reduce risk and where they are not, it is a disgrace. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was some collective legal action among families of Nhs employees that have died.

lovelyupnorth · 12/04/2020 22:42

@Iamthewombat

Trouble is they didn’t use any foresight. Plenty of countries seem the be handling this well - both Italy and Spain had it early. We just sat and watched to busy with the PMs main agenda.

Confusedbutheyho · 12/04/2020 22:42

I remember when WHO pointed the finger with their statements saying ‘some’ countries (UK and US) were acting too slow and they implored for testing testing testing which was ignored by the UK gov.

MintyMabel · 12/04/2020 22:43

@MmmNutella

The parameters come from their own numbers. Is what we are doing working? Yes = keep doing it. No = have stricter guidelines.

Comparing is dangerous because people think “oh X did this and their lockdown was only Y, ours will be the same” Then when it isn’t, it changes mindsets.

A framework is only ever any good if the raw data that formulates it has any basis in future prediction. As far as I can tell, the only reason anyone is comparing with other nations is to claim their government is better or their government is worse. That does nothing to improve the situation.

When all this is done, there will be time for recriminations. Now, all they are is a distraction.

starlightgazers · 12/04/2020 22:45

OPTIMUMMY - spot on!

No, they're not, they're worshipping at the altar of St Boris now

Exactly this - bloody annoying. All I hear is 'unprecedented' - as PP said, this scenario has been on the cards for years, and the government should have been better prepared, especially considering we had Italy as an early warning of what to come.

They were warned to get in PPE in January, 3 months later and there is still a problem with supplies, HCP's are dying daily and no one seems to care too much about what is happening. Then Hancock has the cheek to blame staff for the improper use of it. Disgusting.

As others have said - China will get a lot of the blame, and they will also blame the public for not following lockdown.

Iamthewombat · 12/04/2020 22:46

they implored for testing testing testing which was ignored by the UK gov.

Because the tests were not reliable. I’m with the chief medical and scientific officers on this one: why would you perform tests that you can’t guarantee are accurate? I’m sure that the testing capacity was inadequate but if the tests aren’t proven to work it doesn’t matter how much capacity you have.

Itsjustmee · 12/04/2020 22:48

BrandyandBabycham
ODFOD
Oh Do fuck off Dear

LastTrainEast · 12/04/2020 22:48

Veterinari "....when realistically production could've started in Jan" and in Jan as the other poster pointed out the WHO was saying they had no reason to think there was a problem.

StrawberryBlondeStar · 12/04/2020 22:49

@StarbucksSmarterSister the Netherlands death rate per 1 Mill population is higher then the U.K as is Spain, Italy, Belgium and France.

AgeLikeWine · 12/04/2020 22:49

This disaster was obviously not completely preventable, but it could have been mitigated and contained so much better. Germany has showed everyone the way to deal with the pandemic. Large-scale mass testing, case isolation and aggressive contact tracing.

Sadly, many more of us will die prematurely due to the incompetence of out government who saw what was happening in Italy but chose to do nothing until it was too late.

Holdingmybreath · 12/04/2020 22:50

How are Germany treating early cases.The whole problem with this new virus is that we have no treatment or immunity?

rjebgf · 12/04/2020 22:51

It could be due to our population density, particarly in cities.

Also, we don't know much about the virus but it does seem to discriminate on things like blood group and race. Perhaps many of us have physiological characteristics that the virus likes.

Iamthewombat · 12/04/2020 22:51

I’m waiting for yet another person who doesn’t quite get it to announce that the problem is with ‘the herd mentality’. Bless them.

PicsInRed · 12/04/2020 22:52

You’re not telling me that all of those people on the tube from around 16 March were key workers. No wonder London is in a worse position than any other city, disproportionate to its population: all those people picking it up on the tube and spreading it to their families and neighbou3rs. Terrifying.

What's terrifying is that at exactly the time we needed people to socially distance, TFL cut services to the bone - ensuring that the remaining services were packed.

Yes many were key workers, including NHS workers, crammed into ever fewer and fewer trains.

These people have been BEGGING for reinstatement of services and TFL and Sadiq Khan have totally ignored them. It's a disgrace and potentially criminal negligence.

Iamthewombat · 12/04/2020 22:53

We were told that there were fewer tube services because drivers were either ill or self-isolating. Who should have driven the tubes, in your opinion?

StrawberryBlondeStar · 12/04/2020 22:53

@Holdingmybreath obviously Germany’s states do different things; however, in some states they are keeping an eye on anyone who is diagnosed with COVID-19. In particular day 5/6 taking bloods and looking for subtle signs of deterioration and getting those people into hospital.

LastTrainEast · 12/04/2020 22:53

There is some blame to go around for the NHS not having basic stuff stocked up of course, but that will have to be shared by every government that didn't stock up.

Iamthewombat · 12/04/2020 22:53

Tube TRAINS. Posted in haste!

starlightgazers · 12/04/2020 22:56

Because the tests were not reliable - so how come ones in other countries (eg Germany) were?

MmmNutella · 12/04/2020 22:58

@MintyMabel I agree with you on the point that at the moment the comparisons with other countries are more about how their governments are reacting better/worse which is no help.

I do still think there is some value in seeing what other countries (esp. similar ones) are doing so that if plan A isn't working there are ideas for what plan B, plan C etc. could entail. The data only really tells you the severity/improvement of the problem, not what you can do to manage it.

PicsInRed · 12/04/2020 22:59

I remember when WHO pointed the finger with their statements saying ‘some’ countries (UK and US) were acting too slow and they implored for testing testing testing which was ignored by the UK

The WHO also told us not to close borders and that there was no evidence of human to human transmission, even after Taiwan told them that there was (but Taiwan doesn't exist Hmm so were ignored) - that and the evidence of the world's eyes and just good common sense. If doctors are dying, that's a good clue, WHO.

They've lost a lot of credibility. The League of Nations had more credibility at the end.

starlightgazers · 12/04/2020 23:01

Germany has showed everyone the way to deal with the pandemic. Large-scale mass testing, case isolation and aggressive contact tracing

As did South Korea and Hong Kong - they followed the expert guidance from the WHO and it worked. We didn't, hence the current mess.