Covid-19 UK Vs India fatalities, I don't understand

[Thubten]

Dear All,
I'm finding the figures all very difficult to discern. Why are some countries infections/death figures so horrendous? Africa and India's figures are nowhere near as scary. Many people in India are living close together with no running water. You'd think the perfect grounds for spread but as of yesterday only 199 people had died in India. I just don't get it. What's going on?
(to be clear, long may the low death rates continue in those places).
Can NZ avoid it or will they just be infected once they open their borders? Is it as simple as closing till the worst of it is over? The virus will still exist, is it possible to avoid?

[cantmovewont]

@KimchiLaLa no doubt.i can only go by the personal experiences of the maids and drivers etc that work for our family (and have done for almost 8 years). If the Muslim has said he had been going to the mosque like in the video, I wouldn't have been surprised, so I messaged him there and then to ask him. He has no reason to lie to me. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if there were many many other mosques open.

[cantmovewont]

Shit, just to add: not specific to mosques, also churches and temples.

[cinammonbuns]

@KimchiLaLa no most people on MN are white British and are irritated that there are poor ‘third world’ countries who aren’t as badly affected and are wondering why in anger.

[frazzledasarock]

There’s a lot of religious unrest, with Muslims being killed for allegedly eating beef.

And this covid-19 crisis is being used as further fodder to cause religious divisions.

As far as I’m aware all my family in India say their mosques are closed and there have been no religious gatherings for weeks now. They’re in Mumbai and Gujarat.

It suits the government to keep the in-fighting going on it deflects from them.

No Muslim is going to risk being murdered for going to a mosque. I doubt there are any mosques open right now in India.

[cinammonbuns]

@KimchiLaLa maybe you are genuinely worried for India but I guarantee most people are not and are just bemused that there could be a virus which affects Europe but not Africa or South East Asia

[FTMF30]

They have plenty of Vitamin D and they spend more time outdoors.

It's so easy to see Britain as superior in honest reporting and medical care. But I really think it boils down to the shit (quite unnatural) lifestyle we have in England.

[PicsInRed]

I'm indian, I have family in Bombay. I'm sure a lot of us are on this thread. It's just the way it is.

Well said. There are plenty of us with backgrounds and family abroad who are watching from afar in horror.

It's, frankly, frustrating to watch British people look at our countries and say "yeah, they'll be fine, stop being negative, wow look how well things are going there, we should do it their way" when we have both the inside knowledge of our own countries, combined with the perspective of distance to see how things are likely to go. Soon.

Most days I remember that, due to their susceptibility to coronavirus, and the commercial travel restrictions, I'll probably never see a large proportion of my family again. 😶 None of this do I look forward to with any glee.

I remain here in the UK. I have a child to think of, assessed the options and chose. The UK might feel perilous to a British person, but by God am I relieved to be here. In the medium and long run, geopolitically, so grateful and relieved.

[ShootsFruitAndLeaves]

India has 1/4 of the hospital beds of the UK. Most people will die at home and be buried by their families. Statistics aren't comparable.

Plus of those hospital beds that are there, only a fraction will be up to UK standards. That's the reality.

Add to that it's not clear how important treatment is - most victims who are 80+ who make to hospital die anyway, so it doesn't matter much about the hospital, whats more important is age.

Also India may be behind the UK in infections because of different patterns in global transportation

It is not clear that India is doing a better job in that the lockdown will be causing immense suffering in a way that is not the case in rich countries. Stopping the virus is only the start

[Porcupineinwaiting]

I dont have family in India but have friends in Nigeria. Ordinary people with limited to no access to healthcare. Am terrified for them. For the ones in the city, how could they possibly self isolate?Some have gone back to their villages and if they were to get sick and die there, they'll be buried by nightfall and the authorities would be none the wiser.

[Gingerkittykat]

@KimchiLaLa no most people on MN are white British and are irritated that there are poor ‘third world’ countries who aren’t as badly affected and are wondering why in anger.

As someone who is white Scottish, I find that really offensive. I'm one of the people who are scared that there will be a massive humanitarian disaster in India, the townships of South Africa, refugee camps and other densely populated areas where people live in poverty. I would love to be proved wrong and for those countries to get through with minimal loss of life.

I did read that hot and humid climates are far less affected and I am really happy for those countries.

[StormBaby]

www.channel4.com/news/bodies-left-in-streets-of-guayaquil-as-ecuador-struggles-with-coronavirus

Not India I know, but this really opened my eyes

[Porcupineinwaiting]

I would love it if countries with a hot climate were less affected by coronavirus, they are so often the poorest. Unfortunately there is no evidence that this will be the case.

[Gin96]

Probably because they’re dying of starvation long before they get coronvirus
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/04/i-just-want-to-go-home-the-desperate-millions-hit-by-modis-brutal-lockdown

[TheSheepofWallSt]

@TheCanterburyWhales

No they aren’t. I was using RTAs as an example. Also heartattacks, strokes, fatal epileptic seizures etc. where lower standards of care than usual can be applied, resulting in mortality, are not being counted in covid death stats

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/03/covid-19s-death-toll-appears-higher-than-official-figures-suggest

[TheSheepofWallSt]

@TheCanterburyWhales

And don’t bloody “durr” me madam- unless you’re mumsnetting from 1995, in which case, get back to reading Bridget Jones and mind your own business.

Of course it’s self evident that covid stats don’t include non-covid causes of death. My point was that the true direct and indirect death toll is much higher worldwide than the figures show.

[TheCanterburyWhales]

You quoted your friend in Spain who knows someone in Italy who says RTAs aren't being recorded because there are no paramedics.

That is not true. Would you like a link of RTA deaths in Italy for March? Figures are down by 80% but they are most definitely recorded.

[KrakowDawn]

@cinammonbuns your anger is misplaced.

Many many MNers are very worried about what happens when this virus hits the slums of Sao Paulo, the camps in Turkey and the Greek islands, the poor urban areas of Lagos etc.
We're not stupid, we know what pneumonia will do where people have inadequate access to healthcare. We understand what will happen when the poorest have no work in places that have no welfare provision.
We can empathise with those people, even if we personally have never experienced hunger, overcrowding, malnourishment, chronic ill health, destitution (and some MNers have, in any case).
We are not sitting in our homes lasciviously rubbing our hands reading the daily totals, waiting for the apocalypse.
We are desperately sad and fearful for those that do not have the comforts in life that we have.

And there are those also that are suffering cognitive dissonance, trying to manage the truth that living in a wealthy modernised nation, with immense freedoms and control over our own lives cannot protect us from this virus. That perhaps those we trust to govern don't always make the correct decisions, or make decisions quickly enough.

And there are others that don't care, they'll be alright whatever happens. But I don't think there are many like that on this thread.

[vera99]

Better diet, healthier immune system as they are in a microbially challenged environment most of the time, under-reporting and strong sun zaps it outside on surfaces.

[TheSheepofWallSt]

@TheCanterburyWhales

You’ve deliberately misconstrued what I said to make a point (to give yourself a sense of superiority I suspect) in a belittling and frankly rude manner.

Well I hope it’s given you great satisfaction. For my part, I’m off to sit in the sun and delight in not being you.

[cinammonbuns]

@KrakowDawn the evidence so far is that those countries are NOT severely hot. You all bring up social media rumours to try and prove that wrong but the actual numbers are saying those countries are fine. Then why threads sitting in anticipation questioning why they haven’t been badly hit yet?

[cinammonbuns]

@PicsInRed if you are referring to me then you will be pleased to hear that I am from one of the ‘third world’ you are referring to!

[cinammonbuns]

@Gingerkittykat would you like a medal for caring about other human beings?

[Thubten]

@KrakowDawn
We'll put, thank you. I think you speak for many.
@cinammonbuns your anger is very misplaced here. Why are you angry with people who are categorically wrong in your assumption and actually have more understanding and empathy than you give them credit for?

[PicsInRed]

@PicsInRedif you are referring to me then you will be pleased to hear that I am from one of the ‘third world’ you are referring to!

Eh?

[Thubten]

cinammonbuns your anger is very misplaced here. Why are you angry with people who are telling you that you are categorically wrong in your assumption and actually wehave more understanding and empathy than you give us credit for?