Has their been a change of opinion about lockdown?

[Maryann1975]

So three weeks ago, all I heard about was why weren’t the government locking everything down quickly enough. There was such outrage about it at the time, how bad it was that the government hadn’t shut schools quickly enough, that people were still mixing and big events were still going ahead.

We are now at The start of week three of the ‘lockdown’ (which wasn’t really a full lockdown, But I’m not really sure what to call the period we are in) and people are desperately wondering when everywhere will reopen and seem to be desperate for the schools to reopen.

I’m wondering if the reality of ‘lockdown’ doesn’t fit with what everyone thought it would be (it’s quite hard dealing with dc every day with no break and no where to take them especially if you are having to work through out from home with the dc arguing around your feet). It’s really boring staying at home all the time, missing holidays, missing family, missing friends and gatherings, social interactions, No eating out, cinema, theatre, coffees etc.

Maybe there are two groups of posters and three weeks ago I mainly caught the pro lockdown group Posting and now I am just seeing the pro economy/lift the lockdown posts. I don’t know? I have also just had a group call with friends and it seemed to be that some thought we should be lifting lockdown pretty soon.

It just seems so contradictory from three weeks ago when people were clamouring for the government to take action.

I didn’t say or infer any such thing @Peppafrig. If that’s what I meant, that’s what I would have said. Maybe you should go back to school and learn some reading comprehension skills?

You didn’t @Peppafrig but someone else did which is what I was responding to.

@MigginsMrs once a mean girl always a mean girl. I'm sorry my dyslexia causes you upset.

I think even tighter restrictions should be imposed. No great for the ecomony but the sooner we can get our figures near to zero, the sooner we'll save lives, can see our loved ones and building things up again.

A good point was made by a public health professional recently which was that we are only as safe as the country with the worst health system. Getting our cases to zero isn’t a practical exit strategy if we are still going to trade with and travel to the rest of the world.

Getting them to a point where comprehensive community testing and contact tracing is possible sounds more likely - but I’m a layperson.

@MigginsMrs maybe you need to go back to school to learn to read as my last post was tagged at someone else . Not yourself .

I don't know what the solution is, but I feel for the children.

Even if it was just one or two year groups per day would be something.

It's all about the testing.

But I've not seen one piece of research to support the claim that you are granted immunity after catching C19.

@MarginalGain
mumsnet is one of the ways Tory bots and journalists test - and also try to manipulate - public opinion.

I did wonder.
There are really odd posts where people are worrying about the economy over spread of the virus. Maybe some people do, and I know it’s anecdotal, but everyone I know is most worried about them/family members getting it.

If the lockdown suddenly lifts, who is actually wanting to be part of the next wave of people to get it? It’s a really scary time. The vast majority recover, but if 10% need hospitalisation, even if there are enough beds and doctors/nurses then that’s still a worrying time.

My heart goes out to people in dv situations now, or who are struggling financially or with MH but that’s something the government needs to work on supporting. But if the lockdown can keep people safe and out of hospital, then it worries me if it’s lifted too fast and people feel pressure to go back to work or put their kids back in school.

The person who said we were spoiled for getting used to children not dying more regularly can take their own chances if they want. I couldn’t bear taking that risk personally, and I don’t think I’m spoilt for wanting my family to survive!

There are really odd posts where people are worrying about the economy over spread of the virus. Maybe some people do, and I know it’s anecdotal, but everyone I know is most worried about them/family members getting it.

Isn’t it a case that people can be worried about both? Particularly given the number of people whose incomes have been massively reduced or dropped to zero, people who can’t run their businesses but can’t access govt support, etc, who are worried about their livelihoods in the long run.

Most people I know (again, anecdote) are fairly philosophical that it’s quite difficult to avoid getting it and when lockdown and social distancing is lifted it’s fairly difficult to avoid exposure or risk. For those of us low risk categories that is something we’ll have to judge for ourselves how much of that risk do we want to take on.

But in my social circle we have people who have had hours/income cut (including my DH), people whose businesses are more or shut but don’t qualify for support, people who are worried about whether if their business folds they’ll lose their house, self-employed people with now no income.

So given that there is no exit strategy I’ve seen that doesn’t either involve the risk of catching it or staying in lockdown for at least 18 months, it’s not surprising a lot of people are also looking at the impact of potential economic and financial catastrophe to them personally, as well as the potential risk of the virus.

I am now prepared to be called a Tory bot, which will be so deeply ironic given i ultimately gave up a career I loved and was great at because I could no longer reconcile working for the current shower of a government with my own principles of what I was in that career to do.

But I do think it’s important to try to understand the science and relative risk. The way this has been communicated has been catastrophic and I’m really worried there is a large group of people who honestly believe that come September the risk will be gone.

sharky thank you. I work in probation but not as an officer, I work depiv courses to service users. I'm lucky I can wfh however doing so without the right equipment is challenging. We're being asked to do officers work to help out - without having the correct knowledge and training, but all the responsibility if something goes tits up.

I'm so grateful for the WhatsApp na groups. It's not all recovery talk and is a laugh. Zoom meetings are good but not the same. I've lapsed, but it was a 3day one and I'm back on it today.
I got really frustrated last night with a kinda friend from the rooms. He seems to think corona is bollkcks, so is social distancing and I'm paranoid because apparently I won't get it because I'm healthy and young. He's still meeting up with people, didn't know the correct government guidelines and when I told him waved it away. Apparently him being connected with others is more important. Massively downplaying corona saying that addiction is worse. At least with addiction you make a choice to take drugs. No one chooses to catch corona. He says his recovery is more important than not getting corona. It really frustrated me speaking to him, how can someone be so stupid. And saying he fills his day by going out, that he's never in his flat. Ridiculous

i'm sorry but if it was 4 year olds dying with this virus people would not be saying weigh it up against years left to live v cost to nation and feelings around lockdown

Actually in that scenario small children would be especially protected because of how many years left they do have!

duffel that is because so many mumsnetters don't work and their husbands have not lost all their income. However out there there are 900,000 new universal credit applicants many of whom have had their lives destroyed never mind those who cannot get UC as they have savings. It is absolute carnage out there in the business world with no state money for millions of people and lives utterly destroyed just to save a relatively few people who will probably catch it next year anyway. We are not pursuing the greater good here. We need to release the lock down gradually from 15 April or if not then 1 May release it all and make it voluntary.

It is all right for Raab and the health people every day to give us updates - they have salaries. Many people have lost everything already.

i'm sorry but if it was 4 year olds dying with this virus people would not be saying weigh it up against years left to live v cost to nation

Of course they would. 4 years olds have a lot more years to live and a lot more potential than an 80 year old who has lived their life. I think you are making the opposite argument of what you intended.

There are really odd posts where people are worrying about the economy over spread of the virus. Maybe some people do, and I know it’s anecdotal, but everyone I know is most worried about them/family members getting it.

I was very worried about covi19 about 8 weeks ago. I've since decided that outside of the shielding group. there's a real futility in worrying about covid19.

Firstly, it is not Ebola. The fatality rate will be well below 1%

Secondly, there's going to be no point during the next 18 months that there will be no risk.

Thirdly, I am very worried about the economy, not for me specifically, but spending priorities post-covid19. There's going to be a dramatic drop in people's willingness to spend more on green initiatives, just for starters. And all the other usual things (education, health care, cultural enrichment, and so on).

Yep, what Xenia said. I've been furloughed and my employer was very honest in saying if lockdown continues past June then I'll have no job to go back to. I'm a single parent and have been on benefits in the past and it was the worst time of my life, going back to that would destroy my mental health.

I'm very concerned about my loved ones dying, but I am also concerned about the economic impact and not being able to find a job after this.

I am just quite accepting that I will almost certainly catch the virus and it’s a matter of when not if really. I’m hopeful I’ll get through it relatively unscathed although obviously there is no guarantee. The same as there was no guarantee I would get through childbirth unscathed or anything else really. My dad died of sepsis two years ago at 71 so I’m very aware that not everyone makes it through everything.

There is no point in the future where we can all emerge blinking into a sanitised corona free world. The virus is here to stay and so we will have to learn to live alongside it until an effective vaccine is found. The lockdown is just delaying it all to allow the NHS to cope. Obviously that is hugely important but it’s not a solution, it’s a holding position.

There are really odd posts where people are worrying about the economy over spread of the virus. Maybe some people do, and I know it’s anecdotal, but everyone I know is most worried about them/family members getting it
I wouldn’t say that it’s odd to worry about the economy but I agree with you that for everyone I know, the economy isn’t even a consideration for them. They’re worried about getting food deliveries and for their health and the health of loved ones. Of course the economy will be incredibly damaged by the virus but it really isn’t a concern yet for people I know

The economy is mostly a concern for those of my friends and family who have lost their jobs over it. SIL and BIL have both lost their jobs and due to the country they live in they have no state help. They’re looking at selling their house and moving in with PIL’s. So yes the economy is obviously a concern for them.

They are also of course worried for the health of their friends and family, but the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Jassy, only being as safe as worse health system is so true.

It feels like people are treating ‘the economy’ as a separate thing to people but the economy is people. A badly damaged economy means lots of people losing their jobs, or their homes, or their ability to pay for enough food or their heating in winter or housing somewhere that isn’t damp and dangerous. Children growing up in poverty with all the ways that’s damaging.

We need the lockdown right now because the alternative is even worse but we can’t live in lockdown, even constant cycles of lockdown, for 18 months. We need an exit strategy that throws everything we can throw at the problem (drugs, testing, contact tracing) to allow real life to get back to somewhere closer to normal.

I agree with you that for everyone I know, the economy isn’t even a consideration for them. They’re worried about getting food deliveries and for their health and the health of loved ones. Of course the economy will be incredibly damaged by the virus but it really isn’t a concern yet for people I know.

Could I very gently suggest that if they haven’t taken a significant financial hit from the pandemic, and are only worrying about how to get a food delivery, rather than how to pay for the food, then they’re quite fortunate?

That if there isn’t the very real possibility of them being jobless at the end of this, or if they aren’t already jobless or on zero hours, or if they haven’t lost all their income and seeing bills for work already done not being paid, or having their hours slashed by employers refusing to furlough, that they may wish to be empathetic to those who have already found themselves in those circumstances, or are worried that they soon will?

That article about schools closing not having much effect has been poorly reported (surprise surprise). Closing schools only reduces infection rates by 2 to 4% IF it’s not coupled with other social distancing measures.

Neil Ferguson has been quite clear it’s v effective at reducing transmission of the virus between households.

The thing is the economic hit from the lockdown is not easily distinguished from the hit from the virus with or without lockdown,

There are some suggestions that it is actually less damaging to the economy to have a strong lockdown and control the virus than letting the virus run unchecked

That article about schools closing not having much effect has been poorly reported (surprise surprise). Closing schools only reduces infection rates by 2 to 4% IF it’s not coupled with other social distancing measures.

Neil Ferguson has been quite clear it’s v effective at reducing transmission of the virus between households.

I haven’t read that report; the SAGE reports put it at 5%. As NF says an important part of ensuring minimal contact between households while we are at the extreme end of social distancing.

But this scenario will not last forever (and certainly not until a vaccine is widely available) so as we talk about reducing distancing and increasing the amount of social mixing, it is reasonable to discuss which measures may be lifted sooner than others, both in terms of their public health impact based on the best available information, and on their practicability.

Also important will be information on how much asymptomatic children can be vectors - we just don’t have any reliable information on that at the moment. It’s right to be precautionary at this stage, but we do need better information on exit scenarios or people become restless (as OP has noticed).