Has their been a change of opinion about lockdown?

[Maryann1975]

So three weeks ago, all I heard about was why weren’t the government locking everything down quickly enough. There was such outrage about it at the time, how bad it was that the government hadn’t shut schools quickly enough, that people were still mixing and big events were still going ahead.

We are now at The start of week three of the ‘lockdown’ (which wasn’t really a full lockdown, But I’m not really sure what to call the period we are in) and people are desperately wondering when everywhere will reopen and seem to be desperate for the schools to reopen.

I’m wondering if the reality of ‘lockdown’ doesn’t fit with what everyone thought it would be (it’s quite hard dealing with dc every day with no break and no where to take them especially if you are having to work through out from home with the dc arguing around your feet). It’s really boring staying at home all the time, missing holidays, missing family, missing friends and gatherings, social interactions, No eating out, cinema, theatre, coffees etc.

Maybe there are two groups of posters and three weeks ago I mainly caught the pro lockdown group Posting and now I am just seeing the pro economy/lift the lockdown posts. I don’t know? I have also just had a group call with friends and it seemed to be that some thought we should be lifting lockdown pretty soon.

It just seems so contradictory from three weeks ago when people were clamouring for the government to take action.

@Madein1995 you summed up my feelings perfectly on page 2!

There are some suggestions that it is actually less damaging to the economy to have a strong lockdown and control the virus than letting the virus run unchecked

I've seen some of these reports and they seem to be based on the principle of calculating the worth of people's lives as you might as in legal damages, etc. I read one report valuing a human life at $9M, for example.

Surely these kinds of calculations do not hold in a pandemic. To face a risk is not a harm, in and of itself.

Worryingly, the lives that they propose to save are not the ones paying for the intervention. It's their children and grandchildren, paying out of tomorrow's wages/standard of living. I really can't fathom wanting to saddle my kids with a university-education size debt to prolong my life for some indeterminate, but small period of time.

I'm sure there are some costs to be incurred by an overstretched health service, but I think there's been a bit of double-counting going on here. Capacity has been dramatically expanded, we'll certainly be paying for it. Surely we need to use this capacity?

What it shows me is that we have a very long way to go for people to genuinely understand mh issues. So many people have said a version of "get a grip" "pull yourself together" etc. If I kill myself it would be devastating for my children. Regardless of the other people I've saved.

The police have said publicly that mh is a real danger as police numbers are done by 13% and community mh, paramedics etc the same. The police deal with enormous numbers of people in crisis everyday. If they can't anymore those people will die. Crisis teams are overrun so people will die.

I'm not against the lockdown, but essentially what a lot of people are saying is that death from physical illness is worse than mh, because thees an attitude that you have some control over it.

To be clear I don't want to die or leave my children. But it is highly likely because of lockdown and the fact I cannot access my usual support.

Lockdown for me has been alot different for others on these boards.
We lost all our income overnight, kids are off school. My son has ASD and is due to start secondary in September which brings whole host of problems as who knows what kind of transition he's going to get.
I've had to go and get a job in my local hospital, where I'm now at much more risk than I was before lockdown.
But what's the alternative? Starve and not pay my rent?

I think some on here are so blinkered to how other people live that they can't comprehend that what's best for them isn't best for everyone.

I feel for you @Greysparkles and @BreathlessCommotion.

It’s very easy to be stridently pro lockdown when you are secure financially and mentally.

I'm not against the lockdown, but essentially what a lot of people are saying is that death from physical illness is worse than mh, because thees an attitude that you have some control over it.

I totally agree with this. I have seen at least one poster, who wants everyone physically locked their house say 'those people didnt kill themseleves because of corona. They already had issues before and might have done it anyway'.

But, jesus, if you said that about some body with a physical illness 'ah well they had x condition there were going to die soon anyway' and you would get your head ripped apart on mn.

In time stats will come out. Further down the line. That will mention not only the deaths where people had corona, but the deaths that resulted from a pandemic of this proportion.

Even when lock down ends, lots of people will continue to spiral because of money issues and a lack of support.

I think a lot of people just have not realised what the economic impact is. The government’s furlough offer is great but has given people a false sense of security.

I am expecting carnage this Autumn when furloughing is unwound but revenues do not return to previous levels. There will be mass redundancies and unemployment. Those impacted the worst will be in their 20s (first in first out) and 50s - too expense to keep on.

The economy is our and our children’s future. We have to accept that the virus will not just magically disappear and that lockdown gives time but does not stop it.

We need to prepare to acquire the virus slowly. The worst thing that the government could do would be to reopen schools only in September so that there is a spike in the autumn. Far better to have it over the summer.

Eyewhisker very true. We had a zoom board meeting today.

Thya point was discussed. We are successful business and will get through this period. Though most of our work has been stopped and 80% of staff have been furloughed.

Getting through 3-6 months isn't an issue. It's not knowing how many of our customers will be there. Lots of them have agreed with our decision and advised they will be looking at who made the right responsible choices during this pandemic (CR is huge in our industry) when awarding further contracts. We work for government and NHS. A small number of our workforce is working on several of the nightingale sites.

But, whilst our customers may have good intentions, how many will be there. How long will it take to build the business back up. We are ok. We are not out of the woods.

The poster earlier who said she was fine. Like being a sahm, with more money. Unfortunately, not everyone will have a job long term.

Furlough wonr last forever, then it's about picking up the pieces.

I was very anti-school closures as (as a population) children are not as badly affected.

Not bothered about the teachers then.

I think its particularly hard for Brits.

What on earth are you talking about?

the lockdown worked for China, there are getting out of it 2.5 months later- that's encouraging. With a less strict lockdown like ours, may take 3 months hopefully or a bit more - but the point is, it works.

Personally I think it’s ridiculous. If you check out the weekly death figures in the Office of National Statistics website you Will see that not only are the figures for March no higher than they’ve been for March in the previous five years, the majority of people that passed away are 75 and older and probably would have died anyway.

I don’t believe for one instance that the lockdown, and the subsequent issues that will have created including 25% unemployment, doubling national debt, increase in domestic abuse, increasing suicide, increase in mental health issues et cetera et cetera is justified.

If people want the lockdown lifted and to see many people they know die and their bodies left in ice rinks whilst preparing them for a mass cremation then great! I think it def needs longer and to be stricter in cities especially.

I would tolerate continued lock down if I got some of all this free money everyone seems to get but a few of us! Yet next year I will be paying massively more tax so everyone sitting at home on furlough got to put their feet up this year.

@CatAndHisKit the lockdown worked for China, there are getting out of it 2.5 months later- that's encouraging. With a less strict lockdown like ours, may take 3 months hopefully or a bit more - but the point is, it works.

I think you have that the wrong way around. The more effective the lockdown and social distancing the the longer it will all take. The plan is still for everyone to get infected just at a slow enough rate for the nhs to cope.

Have any of you read the data produced in the US that predicts more deaths in the UK than in the rest of Europe put together as a result of the delayed lockdown? Even if that is only half true, it means a lot more people are going to die. Stay at home, boredom won't kill you but corona very well might.

Not sure there's been a change of opinion, perhaps people are simply fed up with the weight of the impact and looking for the way out. Understandable.

We've committed to lockdown, we're good with that commitment with the current data on the virus.

I'm more upset that large events like Cheltenham went ahead. I really think the death toll we are seeing now would be lower if we'd cancelled things like that earlier.
I think we've got the balance right with the current lock down. It probably should have happened earlier.
Testing and PPE seem to be massive cock ups and that makes me angry too. I think the stay at home message is diverting attention from those.
Some poor pregnant nurse in hospital with covid was filmed yesterday begging people to stay at home, undoubtedly she was infected at work through lack of ppe rather than by someone going out for a walk.

The lockdown doesn’t make the virus go away or mean you’ll never get it.

It will still be there at the end of lockdown unless it lasts for years.

I for one am questioning the trade offs we are making and I hope someone smart in govt is too. By this lockdown we are directly saving some lives by slowing the spread of covid (mainly the lives of elderly people with existing health issues) but people will die as a consequence of the lockdown when millions of jobs disappear. People will die as a consequence of being pushed into poverty (not immediately but life expectancy will drop as life expectancy in the U.K. and elsewhere is correlated with poverty).

We need full lock down... I'm currently managing our Covid referrals and I'm watching my colleagues fall ill and be admitted.

No words. Almost 1000 people died overnight in the UK: this is NOT like other viruses.

Everyone needs to get in their house and STFU.

So @FelicisNox, genuine question, how do we get out of it?

I think some on here are so blinkered to how other people live that they can't comprehend that what's best for them isn't best for everyone.
This
This is a life changing event for many more people than the tiny minority who will die slightly earlier than they would have anyway.
I am fortunate- teacher looking forward to going back to my job -for many it is a cripplingly anxious time that will take a terrible toll on young families, especially the low paid and those with SEN children.
Mental health is, if anything, MORE important than 'physical' health.

Completely agree with you Gnom. Plus the additional deaths due to suicide and DV and the endless cuts to the welfare system for years and years. Austerity has been estimated to cost 130,000 deaths a year (sorry I can’t find the link) and how many years of austerity will we have to repay the debts building up now?

Okay you would have rather had half a million people die and life carry on as normal.
And no a lot of people are dying who are nowhere near deaths door.
And yes we do know how much this is affecting people negatively. I have a family too, I understand very well the impact. So please don't patronise us.

I'll admit to not reading the whole thread.

I'm firmly opposed to any kind of stricter or longer lock down...the adverse effects particularly on children and the economy will cause greater harms.

Its all very well being pro lockdown when you have the financial security and the privilege of your children being in private education with live streamed lessons everyday, or no children. I'm lucky re employment but I'm a nurse consultant in mental health with 2 kids at home..Yes I'm a key worker but as kids are old enough to be at home I'm not putting them in school. Trying to juggle my job and making sure they're ok is tough. We risk a lost generation if this carries on too long. School closures have limited effect and are likely to cause more harm in the long run.

People are only bothered when something effects them acutely, the climate change crisis and child mental health crisis are largely ignored. Smoking and obesity will continue to place huge demands on the nhs, the irony of watching an obese woman wearing a mask purchase cigarettes yesterday was not lost on me.

I worked in camhs for 10 years. We faced and dealt with risk to life relentlessly everyday. But instead of being hailed as heros we were belittled, abused, and bullied by parents, teachers and fellow healthcare professionals alike. The fall out from this is going to be massive.