Our human rights have been taken away

[Soph7777]

I know it's for a good cause.

I know it's to save lives.

But our basic human rights have been taken from under us, in the short space of a week.

I find this part most of all the scariest.

I'm really struggling mentally with government control to this extent.

How long can this last before people lose their minds and rebel?

ImGoing interesting, do you know why they narrowed it to respiratory?

The mental image of the care homes for the elderly in Spain where when the army moved in they found people who'd been left to die in their beds, abandoned by the staff, hit me pretty hard. If it turns out that the same thing happened in facilities caring for the disabled I won't be surprised. There are some very ugly things about who society values and who it does not being made very clear.

@Hoggleludo - it's not just coronavirus victims that can't have a full funeral. I mentioned my mum died recently. We couldn't get a funeral date for earlier than five weeks after her death. We can't have a wake - social distancing and not many (if any) places open. We've also decided we can't have anyone other than immediate family present because many of our family are elderly, three younger ones have medical conditions including cancer. So we can't risk them getting compromised with this. And, at the crematorium, we've been asked to sit around the chapel, not together - 2 metres apart. It's not what we envisaged for mum but it's what we've got to do to keep our family safe - so we're doing it. Mum will, at least, have a place we can go to as she didn't die with coronavirus.

We're planning a memorial when this is over, as are many others in a similar position. We'll remember her quietly and remember her life with a huge fanfare when we can.

Our local church has now had to stop church funerals for everyone by the way. Doors are locked for the first time in decades (if not longer).

That's what's so frustrating, I'mGoing. Governments knew this was coming.

Apparently the American government used to have a department dedicated to planning for something like this, but Trump shut it down when he took office. They're paying for that now (the public, not the people who made the decision).

Thank you @Amymayapple. Yes, it's always been bad. Mum had been admitted to hospital a few times in the past five years and never managed less than 24 hours in a corridor.

Let's hope the legacy of this is more staff, more beds and more volunteers helping those who need it.

@MarshaBradyo

I don't, except that it is my (albeit limited) understanding that respiratory diseases are the most likely to widescale spreading like this, invisible droplets of saliva containing the virus being breathed, coughed, sneezed, spat out all over the place.

www.who.int/gard/publications/The_Global_Impact_of_Respiratory_Disease.pdf

"Respiratory diseases are leading causes of death and disability in the world."

"Viral respiratory infections can occur in epidemics and spread rapidly within communities across the globe"

"Respiratory viruses can spread quickly because of the ease of
transmission, as has been seen in past influenza pandemics."

The government might not have been expected to predict a pandemic would be respiratory (though actually, my understanding is that is the most likely type of illness to 'go pandemic') but they could and should have been planning for any type of pandemic to be coming

No, they did know.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/

Governments knew this was coming.

They absolutely did and each government gambled on it not happening during their tenure so never having to deal with the fallout. This government lost that gamble.

It was the National Security Council Pandemic Planning Unit that Trump disbanded in 2018, saying he wasn't going to pay for people to just sit about. By 2018 that unit had been warning for years about the very real threat of a pandemic like this.

Imgoing yes good points. Plus we’re not as good here as say Japan with cultural practises

That link doesn't surprise @Nearlyalmost50 - I was being a bit 'overly fair' in excusing them from knowing it would be respiratory because I did not have anough facts to hand to say differently.

But it's not a surprise they knew, sadly.

@LondonJax

I'm so so sorry. I can't imagine what your going through. I'm always here if you ever want to rant to a friendly stranger xx

Anyone asking the OP to look at the bigger picture might do well to try and do so themselves.

The OP is one person complaining on the internet and has been accused of being part of the probem. Even if they are (am not convinced) they are a tiny speck of sand compared to worldwide governments repeatedly being warned this this exact problem was coming and would likely happen in the next few years, and then failing to properly prepare for it. In some cases, taking actions that meant their own countries were even less prepared for it than they would be naturally. They form a much bigger part of the problem. The OP, like all of us, are just ants caught in the crossfire here.

Sorry if I'm frightening people. From what I've read the real personal danger point if you get this virus is about 10 days in. Some will get pneumonia. But you could recover and get ill again.
Some people are genetically predisposed to a Cytokine Storm, looks like some just get when seriously ill.
Google it

**’Do you know you're on your own in hospital with corona? Do you know you'd die on your own with corona? Do you know only 5 or so people can come to your funeral? That you won't have a grave site? Your going to be mass buried?’

So in summary I’ve lost my right to have anyone with my at my deathbed (even people who will only be mildly affected if they catch it). My family have lost their right to say goodbye to me with a proper funeral or to grieve me at a proper burial site.

These are rights being lost and it is ok to discuss whether or not we agree with or are affected by them. There are comments on here about people being annoyed they’ve lost their right to go for a long walk or whatever. But it’s not just the young who have lost their rights. The old and the vulnerable have lost the right to have any say over their own lives. They are the ones who are risking their lives by seeing people surely it’s worth considering at least as to whether they should also be the ones deciding whether they take the risk or not. I spoke to a friend at a care home this week and she told me how awful it is, she isn’t allowed outside and their only really source of joy (visitors) have been taken away from them, these are people already at the end of their lives. Another friend with terminal cancer has been given 3 months to live, he’ll spend the final few months of his life staring at the four walls in his house instead of being with his loved ones. These are devastating rights to have been taken away supposedly for these people’s own protection - don’t they get a say in whether they want that protection?

Really, this is a shit situation for everyone. The degree and specific ways to which it's awful vary, but it's not a happy time for anyone. All any of can really do is hope that it's over quickly and that as many people as possible survive.

Interesting article about how Hungary is facing this exactly worry - that the virus outbreak is giving opportunity for political control in a way that is worrying.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/hungary-jail-for-coronavirus-misinformation-viktor-orban

imgoing I am not going to defend the various different government policy on this of various shades, however it is prudent to acknowledge we have had many false dawns, SARS, bird and swine flu, Ebola, MERS. All contained to a small region, all were controlled relatively quickly with very small mortality rates relatively.
The various governments have not been stretched out napping, we have only just recovered from the 2008 financial crash, many years were lost trying to recover from that, the recession and fallout dragged on for twelve years more or less.

Yes the warnings were there, I agree, but they come out regularly and have up to now had very little impact on the UK. Of course in hindsight I am sure they all wish they had paid much more notice, and been far more prepared.

**notice - attention

ImGoingSlightlyBrad

Anyone asking the OP to look at the bigger picture might do well to try and do so themselves.

The OP is one person complaining on the internet and has been accused of being part of the probem. Even if they are (am not convinced) they are a tiny speck of sand compared to worldwide governments repeatedly being warned this this exact problem was coming and would likely happen in the next few years, and then failing to properly prepare for it. In some cases, taking actions that meant their own countries were even less prepared for it than they would be naturally. They form a much bigger part of the problem. The OP, like all of us, are just ants caught in the crossfire here.
X
Well said x

@cornishdreams1 I agree, there are various factors why governments did not heed the warnings, not least because spending money preparing for a pandemic that most voters would dismiss as a risk, does not win votes. I get that and can see there is probaby much, much more that I don't 'get' about pandemic politics.

However, I do think the government is still a much more deserving target of people's ire and frustration than a lone poster on mn, expressing (however clumsily) their fears over the current state of the nation.

My posts above were added to try and illustrate that someone on a forum saying "I am scared" is not the enemy and doesn't deserve some of the awful tings posted on here. That the 'bigger picture' some posters have been so keen to press is even bigger than maybe they themselves had appreciated and so they, too, could do with stepping back a little to see more of the view.

LittleRootie some of your complaints boil down to 'they told us but they didn't make us listen'. Was it so wrong for the PM to assume that he was speaking to adults?

I get you OP.

I think it’s a valid topic of discussion for anyone who is interested in psychology, sociology, politics, even philosophy.

I’ve found it fascinating and slightly worrying to see how quickly and easily the population (including me) can be controlled.

I’ve been pretty shocked at how many people I’ve seen hoping we’ll have the army on the streets soon. Wishing for that kind of situation seems really peculiar to me.

One of the most worrying comments I’ve seen was a person telling someone:
‘It doesn’t matter if you think the rules are fair and reasonable, or based on fact; you’ve just got to do as they say’.

Personally, I think the rules are fair and reasonable and based on science, and I’m following them. But it’s really alarming to me that a proportion of the population would willingly do as they were told by their government, regardless of what seemed morally right.

@Sunshine1235 The problem is even if you are low risk that does not mean the same as without risk. There are perfectly healthy adults (and even teenagers) who have no died from coronavirus who had no preexisting health conditions and were not considered high risk.

Quite frankly the whole reason things have had to become so strict and enforced is that people only care about me, myself and i rather then the bigger picture and the potential harm their actions could cause to others.

For example and i hate to make this example as I know this has been the reality for some people and therefore i apologise in advance, If you have a elderly relative in a care home or hospice who is nearly end of life for non coronavirus related reasons, and you start to allow visitors in, what happens if those visitors a asymptomatic carriers of Corona virus and therefore bring it into the care home and thus unknowingly infect staff, who then infect vulnerable patients and it causes deaths which wouldn't have otherwise occured? The same situation could be said in hospitals although it would then occur on a much larger scale and be much much harder to contain.

And say you use your right to be with a relative who is critical ill with coronavirus, and again you catch it, will you for 14 days afterwards not leave the house?? What if your asymptomatic and continue going shopping and essential travel and therefore pass it onto someone else who could potentially be shopping for a high risk vulnerable relative and unknowingly transfer it to them? Even before that how do you expect to leave the hospital room after being in contact with someone currently ill from coronavirus and remove the risk of you having the virus on your clothes and physical being as you travel through the hospital to leave, and then touch door handles and the parking pay meter? They dont have enough spare PPE to fully equip every member of public to safely allow them to visit a ill relative and also even if you wear it while in a area where there is known coronavirus there is no guarentee that you wont pick it up while walking through the hosptial back to your car/walking home?

The whole reason for the limitations is to protect the wider public, from those who seem to think that because they are not high risk then sod the rules.

I am honestly terrified of Corona Virus, I have elderly grandparents and my best friend in her early twenties (isn't disabled, worked full time prior to doctors calling her to tell her she is not to have any outside contact for 3 months) is at higher risk then most elderly people (her DH has moved out due to being a key worker) and although i do her shopping for her I make sure to wear gloves(using correct PPE guidelines), disinfect it all, shower, clean clothes on, then disinfect it again before leaving it by her door and standing at least 2 meters away. But that dosent stop me being terrified for her children whom due to one persons selfish mistake due to them thinking "well im not at risk.." could be left without their mother. And unfortunately she is not the only person I know personally or know of who is at that high risk level right now.

I am reminded of a quote from a review of the Milgram Shock study...

" [What] people cannot be counted on is to realize that a seemingly benevolent authority is in fact malevolent, even when they are faced with overwhelming evidence which suggests that this authority is indeed malevolent"

I don't think our government IS malevolent, but I am also aware I probably wouldn't know if they were.

I have thought about it more.

I don't agree with the severity of these restrictions.

Schools, colleges, libraries, theatres, bars, restaurants,
Shut for months on end? I am thinking about the people working there.

So many people losing their jobs.

Health care for other people cancelled, I have heard about cancer appointments being cancelled for example, and people having difficulty seeing a GP

It is WAY too extreme