Am I really the only one?

[Firef1y72]

Am I really the only one concerned about the far reaching consequences of the bill that came in effect on Thursday.
Right now we are effectively living in a police state. With the potential to remain so for 2 years with no right to demonstrate. There is so.much potential for abuse of power. A dissenter can be sectioned on the say so.of a single doctor. Local elections were postponed to next year with very little (if any) public outcry. Some people seem to be wetting their knickers at the thought of informing on their neighbours. Others are demanding the the army patrol the streets.

Remember those history lessons we had at school about Europe in the 30s??? As my history teacher told us, one of the reasons we learnt about that was so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

What would you prefer OP? No new laws and no way to impose lock down? Not being goady, genuinely asking. What you think should be happening?

Remember those history lessons we had at school about Europe in the 30s??? As my history teacher told us, one of the reasons we learnt about that was so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past

You’re looking at the wrong bit of history. Try 1918 or 1347-1352.

Am I really the only one

No. There have been a zillion threads about this same topic. You are not special.

@DianaT1969

tbh not sure, but some of the clauses in the bill are extremely worrying and over what is needed. There comes a point where the cure is worse than the disease. And I am actually not convinced that we are being given all data. What if the study saying that up to 50% of us have had/have it turns out to be correct? Do you not think that fact may well be suppressed? Because I would imagine that there would be a large amount of civil unrest if it were true (oh no forgot we wouldnt be able to demonstrate because no gatherings of mpre than 2 people)

You can't be sectioned on the say so of one doctor. Doctors can't section people. AMHPs section people, usually with medical recommendations from two doctors, now down to one to free up doctors- very sensible.

And it's not for 2 years without review, the powers will be reviewed every 6 months by parliament.

@DianaT1969
Nope I'm looking at the right bit of history, look at Germany and Italy in the 30s. I'm already seeing people on facebook falling over themselves to report their neighbour for leaving their house.

There has to be serious thought about where this could lead. Up to now there has been a system of checks to stop that happening, but many of them were wiped out on Thursday. All we need now is the MSM to decide on who we are going to blame.

So breaking isolation and distancing rules is a political/religious statement? There I was thinking it was a pandemic.

Look I don’t doubt that the political classes need careful monitoring but there’s literally no framework for current events and the best strategy we have is keeping the hell away from each other. If going out and congregating freely was truly an individual choice I’d be more inclined to say let them crack on but it isn’t. The repercussions reach much further than any one individual.

Yes, I think you are in a very small minority.

More rationally minded people are not conspiracy theorists.

No op, I am also very concerned about this, as are many people I know. It is not going unnoticed.

Yes let's just continue as normal and have local elections to keep the minority happy. You do realise why we have to take these measures? Right now our NHS can't cope with the virus and the normal intake of people that have other health issues. Are you not watching what's happening in Italy and Spain? I bet the families of the people who've died from coronavirus wish that these measures had come in earlier. It's a small price to pay in the short term to save lives.

Let's be clear, I am not breaking any rules, but I am very, very concerned that the world as a whole has been moving further and further to the right over the last decade and the potential for many governments, including our own, to take advantage of the current situation.

I hope to god that I'm wrong, but history does tell us that the current climate is the perfect breeding ground for it to repeat itself.

Yes, I agree with you OP. I've been worried about this since the start. If the government had been worried about the virus they would have stopped flights into this country in January. It's almost as if they wanted it here.

I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist as there is so much more going on behind closed doors than we realise, most people are blind. People need to stop watching mainstream so much, do a bit of research and start thinking for themselves. Several agendas are being pushed through fast right now.

Mumsnet is not the place to discuss theories, it's heavily policed and many of my posts get deleted because they are too close to the truth. YouTube is far better for open discussion and finding out things that are going on.

@Firef1y72 the world really has not been moving to the right.

It kind of has. But it's not really about left and right politics. It's about the elites v everyone else.

@G3m81

You do realise that there were alternatives to just postponing for a year don't you?
They could have postponed for 6months and extended the postal/online voting to everyone.

Am I concerned about the virus itself? Yes, I am following the rules, but unlike many I know that it is most likely that I will get it at some point (if I haven't already, I was seriously ill with a virus over Christmas that followed the symptoms and progression of CV19 to the letter, and had only really just recovered by the start of Marcg), in fact I know it's part of the government's plan that I get it.

But I am also concerned about the future and as harsh as it sounds (I'm autistic and struggle with how to put things in a "nice" way), there will be a future for the vast majority of us (whether a vaccine is found or not) and I don't want my children growing up in a police state. I don't want them growing up in a world where neighbour informs on neighbour, where they don't have the right to protest against what they see as injustice.

Yes it's concerning but wouldn't be necessary without all the 'How can I get round the rules because they obviously apply to everyone else and I'm low risk anyway' people. There's loads of them on here and in my neighbourhood. No wonder the state has to get itself new powers.

A dissenter can be sectioned on the say so.of a single doctor.
The bill DOES NOT SAY THAT! FFS

ACTUALLY SAYS it will
enable existing mental health legislation powers to detain and treat patients who need urgent treatment for a mental health disorder and are a risk to themselves or others, to be implemented using just one doctor’s opinion (rather than the current 2). This will ensure that those who were a risk to themselves or others would still get the treatment they need, when fewer doctors are available to undertake this function

They could have postponed for 6months and extended the postal/online voting to everyone

There is neither the manpower or resources to commit to that right now. Best case situation is things will be reviewed and brought forward if possible but realistic timeframes are being put in place.

You might be right and we emerge from this into decades of real political and societal turbulence but I’m afraid that in the here and now we have to accept that plans will be made and enacted quickly because time and knowledge are luxuries we just don’t have.

I think we are right to be concerned. And you have the right to post (another) thread about this. Obviously important despite and maybe because of this state of emergency to keep 'talking' about it.

Especially when parliament has been shut down and it is taking time for new systems to be set up.

Can anyone clarify about the one
g.P can section people? Where does it say that? Personally I've had really bad experiences with some G.Ps and realise it is not that easy to make a complaint if needed, certainly not in an emergency situation like this.

And whatever happens we can't and shouldn't throw democracy out of the window.

Personally I would rather be 'armed' with the correct information. So that I can know what my rights are, and if needed explain it to my DD if there are questions. I'm certain also that given the speed of the changes, your average police officer hasn't got their heads around it yet?

And yes, I lived in Germany for over a decade, was there when the wall came down in 1989 and had many east german friends. You are right to be concerned, and of course have the right bit of history.

Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question, but if anyone can post a helpful link here with factual info about the changes with regard to
gp etc I would be grateful.and maybe not the only one?

all best
mid

No I'm not concerned.

I work in the political world and in particular with a lot of people in the current government who are deeply disturbed by the kind of powers contained in the Bill. They have backed it for now, but will be the first to call for it to be repealed as soon as it can be.

Boris has very strong civil libertarian instincts.

sorry posts crossed:

poster says

ACTUALLY SAYS it will
enable existing mental health legislation powers to detain and treat patients who need urgent treatment for a mental health disorder and are a risk to themselves or others, to be implemented using just one doctor’s opinion (rather than the current 2). This will ensure that those who were a risk to themselves or others would still get the treatment they need, when fewer doctors are available to undertake this function

end of other post

I think this is very worrying actually:

The bill DOES NOT SAY THAT! FFS

ACTUALLY SAYS it will
enable existing mental health legislation powers to detain and treat patients who need urgent treatment for a mental health disorder and are a risk to themselves or others, to be implemented using just one doctor’s opinion (rather than the current 2). This will ensure that those who were a risk to themselves or others would still get the treatment they need, when fewer doctors are available to undertake this function

can you really not see how easily that could be abused?

Re: believing that
boris has 'strong civil libertarian instincts'..
Gosh, requiring considerable effort NOT to respond to that statement...

Changing the subject back to clear information, found this website a while back, it is an independent charity and I've found it helpful it is called

www.fullfact.org.uk

has lots about claims around cvirus

fullfact.org/health/how-to-fact-check-coronavirus/ again