Vulnerable children locked up in flats, deep recession, mental health eroded a future generation screwed

[Borkins]

I hope it flattens that curve. I hope it saves lives. Because huge sacrifices are being made.

It’s vulnerable children with complex needs who will die as well. That’s who the 0.2% death rate is. So it’s not a straight choice between save the elderly and save the kids with special needs.

I then ask myself is it actually worth it for the greater good? It’s a shit situation but for the vast majority it’ll be mild

The alternative would be a disaster.

If we let the disease run its course, even taking the more vulnerable out of the equation the ‘minority’ of young healthy people with serious complications would floor the health service and lead to tens of thousands of deaths.

The economy cannot function with a broken health service, healthcare providers getting sick and that degree of mortality. There will be rooting, looting, violence, you name it.

However I agree that the cost is enormously high and will hit young people (who’ve already had it tough) the hardest. I’m not sure what can be done about that. The pensioner wealth point is very interesting.

@TrainspottingWelsh @Stupidanduseless @Womenwotlunch @Borkins @Effic

I actually think we are all broadly in agreement. There is going to be a terrible impact on a segment of the population and the sacrifice required will fall disproportionately on those who can afford it the least. As others have said, there are agencies, teachers etc... who are doing their best to mitigate the impact as far as they can.

Where we differ is that this is NOT being done to protect the elderly. If the NHS is overwhelmed, everyone will suffer and people from all walks of life will die as per my previous post. The reason why the death rates for younger people are good isn't that they aren't getting sick and need hospital treatment, it's that currently they are being prioritised and so have a better chance of getting an ICU bed or a ventilator. If the exponential growth of cases continues, this will no longer be the case as there won't be enough resource for anyone so all ages WILL die. And this could be someone's carer, someone's support worker and almost certainly will be medical workers at high risk. And vulnerable people will suffer even more.

There are measures that can taken to help this who are vulnerable and at risk, and within our current means with people getting sick every day we should definitely be doing what we can (as an example there is a departement here in France with high social deprivation which has completely banned the sale of alcohol to reduce the rates of domestic and familial abuse on advice from domestic violence charities). But unfortunately there is no perfect outcome. Someone will suffer whatever happens and it's shit. But we didn't choose this situation, we can only face it as best we can while trying to protect as much of the entire population as possible.

I can see both sides. The global recession will kill many,,the psychological impact on vulnerable families will be profound. Did you see the videos that came out of Wuhan - no singing from balconies, you can hear screaming.
But the alternative, given the inescapable mathematical reality of the virus (given we didn’t act early enough to take the South Korea route) is complete overwhelming of the health service, your loved ones dying a horrible death at home with you, bodies piling up in the street, vast mass graves.
This is an awful situation and I remain so angry that action wasn’t taken in early - mid Feb when we had a chance of keeping it at bay in this country (but that’s another thread for another time when we get a public inquiry)

Ffs. I give up. No there is no debate. You are all absolutely right
That's just a stroppy reply because you can't give a convincing solution to what should be done instead.
No one is saying that this isn't going to be a terrible time for vulnerable kids. But what's the alternative? You haven't explained.

I agree with a poster upthread who said that as a nation, we care very little for vulnerable children in the first place.

Perhaps when this is all over, we’ll do something about that in terms of the parties and policies we support.

I agree with a lot of posters that the consequences of this virus on the economy as a whole, personal finances, people's mental health, business will be far reaching and for some catastrophic. People are and will die but for most even if they catch this virus they will recover but they still will have lost their jobs, can't pay their rent/mortgage, their relationships will have broken down, their mental health will suffer.

I understand why the lockdown is happening and agree with it and taking it seriously but I still, on a personal level feel sad for my son, nearly 4 and with an EHCP and going to school in September, that he's missing out on preschool which he loves, his swimming lessons where he sees his only proper friend, not seeing his grandparents who he adores, his weekly private speech and language therapy, where he's been making enormous progress, has stopped and that's without the other leisure activities outside the house my husband and I do with him. My son could be classed as vulnerable due to his EHCP but he is safe at home, loved, fed, has lots of toys and a garden to play in. Any consequences for him will be short lived once everything opens/starts again.

Unfortunately I agree with others who show concern for other children with sen and their families where they will be desperate and children who are at risk where they will take much longer to recover from this and not the virus itself.

It is shit, it is terrifying. I don’t see an alternative to lockdown though.

Vulnerable children won’t always be known about. DH wasn’t. I wasn’t. Reading this thread I’m actually grateful this didn’t happen 20+ years ago!

If two thirds of the people dying of corona were going to die within a year anyway
I keep seeing this sort of thing and it makes no sense to me, for example isn’t diabetes one of the major underlying conditions? You can live a long full life with that. Some of the fatalities may have “only” been months from death, but I’m not sure it’s that simple for the majority of underlying conditions.

I am t1 diabetic - I appreciate it’s likely I will die - but that doesn’t matter if I’ve been locked down for months or not - it’ll happen anyway.
That’s why I can’t really understand everyone acting like staying home is a cure and means they won’t get it. I know I will get it, I’m using this time to get everything in order so that when it happens my loved ones have less to deal with. I suppose to that end it’s helpful but I don’t need months of it, I’m pretty well sorted. I don’t need to plan a funeral cos it will be a mass funeral and no one will be able to attend.
That’s no different now to six months down the line. Basically I’m waiting to die 🤷🏼‍♀️

I have been wondering what social services are doing at the moment. I have a family support worker (self referred early help plan) and we turned down our toddler’s nursery place as apparently we were still eligible during closures. But we are in a position where despite the stresses we are in (numerous and wide ranging, hence the EHP) we are able to just get through this time and even make the best of it. We are very very lucky and grateful for that. (Part of the reason is that our health was already stopping us working - so we already have UC set up and a secure HA home - bit weird to feel so grateful for the illnesses we have, but now is a time for counting blessings more than ever.)

But I have no doubt our FSW is worrying about other families on her books, whom she can’t visit, she is just doing her best while WFH.

Are SS doing visits at all - even before the rules got set out, our FSW was saying I could cancel visits if worried (I wouldn’t, she’s fab) - how easy was it for families avoiding visits at this time? How easy is it now? Surely some visits would count as essential, in the same way as some medical appts can’t be postponed due to the pandemic while others can (or can be moved onto the phone as some of ours will). But even then how easy is it for abusers to say oh no we are self isolating due to symptoms :(

I do not envy SW generally but now - I can’t imagine :(

I completely agree OP, we can only hope the sacrifices will be proven to be worth it in the long term.

huge sacrifices are being made.

Yes, and it's going to be those at the bottom that are going to suffer and sacrifice the most. There are going to be children falling through the cracks right now and will never get the support they need.

If the government can find the money to give people up to a couple of grand who might otherwise be laid off, they can find the money to reinstate things like Home Start and support workers.

I don't resent those people receiving gov support re the 80%, I don't want people to loose their homes, or choose between electricity and food. But that's what a lot of vulnerable families have been doing for a long time now and things are getting tougher for them.

This thread is absolutely horrible.

Just who are any of us to say who has more right to life?

Borkins
If I was 86, I'd say don't you dare put me on a ventilator. If I get it, it's my time. I'd rather the children had a future.

Fuck that, I wouldn't and I bet if it came to it, you wouldn't either but then I'm guessing I'm nearer to that age than you are.

I think the title is a tad hysterical, it's just (hopefully) a few months out of their lives. They might actually learn something.

They can’t say they would have died within a year anyway. How can they prove that? It’s just a guess

Stircrazed - Can't read the actual article as you have to subscribe, but the headline says may have died not would have. Big difference.

Yes, and it's going to be those at the bottom that are going to suffer and sacrifice the most.
Absolutely.

Hopefully at the end of this, when we're out the other side, we will reflect on how and why we allowed so many to suffer so badly (before CV) through enormous cuts to public and health services while others grew so massively wealthy. Perhaps intergenerational inequality and unfairness will also come into focus and we might rebalance the needs of the young against the old. It has also shown us what jobs really are the most valuable to society and what jobs aren't, and how it is in no way reflected in how much we pay people and how much we respect their worth. Maybe the supermarket shelf stacker and bin man will get the respect the deserve for the hugely important roles.

Maybe a rebalancing of society and revaluation of what's really important will come out of it. Maybe less greed. This could ultimately help more vulnerable children get the attention they needed and weren't getting, even before CV came along.

To be honest, I'm not optimistic it will bring about societal change though.

I can't help thinking that all this hysteria comes from people realising that they are mortal.

@StirCrazed

That’s a revolting thing to say.

I am not a boomer, neither are many people in the extremely vulnerable group. Fuck us though, eh? We can just go and die because we have serious health conditions, even ones that aren’t life limiting.

Curious to know what you’re doing to help all the vulnerable people you’re so concerned about? I am still doing my key worker role from home and ensuring our most vulnerable have contact, plus other duties. Stop making it them vs us. We can support both.

And to the posters taking huge offence at the nurse thinking that we keep people alive to long, I completely agree with her. Huge efforts and interventions are often made to keep someone alive who has no quality of life and is suffering great pain. How can that be right?

They might actually learn something.

Who is 'they' SilverySurfer? The vulnerable children in the 'tad hysterical' title? That's how it might read, but no one would be the spiteful would they.

Saying that a whole generation is screwed is an exaggeration and scaremongering. The vast majority of people will bounce back from this without permanent damage. Look at how wealthy Europe became after two horrific World wars in 2 decades. A pandemic over the course of a few months - maybe even a year - isn't going to fuck up an entire generation.

This. Just grow up, FFS - do you want half a million deaths on your conscience if we just let this thing rip through the population?

@ADreamOfGood It's not nice for them though is it? Living in poverty in flats and being stuck inside for weeks on end without even a garden, poor things.

It's ok to be sad for this in that situation