Vulnerable children locked up in flats, deep recession, mental health eroded a future generation screwed

[Borkins]

I hope it flattens that curve. I hope it saves lives. Because huge sacrifices are being made.

That's lucky then, glowcat. We'll be happy to be struck down with some quick virus in our poverty stricken old age. Obviously all our other investments/private pensions/property prices are totally fucked as well now.

I have worked with some young children with dreadful home lives. When I ask them what they did over the summer, they stayed at home and watched telly.

I mean, no, it isn't great. Some of these children are better off in school. But staying in for a few weeks is not going to "ruin the lives of a generation". Many of them stay at home for long periods of time anyway - until they get old enough to roam the streets.

No glow but at least we will know what they were.

Oak the dreadful home lives most of us are talking about are a bit more complex than being left to watch tv all summer.

That's not really what I meant, Trainspotting.

I wasn't saying their homes lives were terrible BECAUSE they stayed at home and watched telly.

I was saying they were in dreadful situations, but actually a 3 (or 6) week lockdown wouldn't be much different from the summer holiday, since most of those children seemed to spend most of their time inside anyway.

I'm not saying that that doesn't matter - obviously the summer holidays were not good times for those children and the first half of the autumn term was spent trying to get them back onto something approaching an even keel, just that it isn't going to ruin their lives any more than their lives are already being ruined.

Ironically I think coronavirus could save the NHS by showing us all how important it is. It's the Tories that have always been the real threat to the NHS.

People falling into this extremely vulnerable group include:

Solid organ transplant recipients.
People with specific cancers:
people with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radical radiotherapy for lung cancer
people with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment
people having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer
people having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors
people who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs
People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe COPD.
People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell).
People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection.
Women who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired.

————————

To those who think people like me are expendable, take a look at that list. Do you think it’s only people in their 80s?! We are at high risk from COVID19 and most of us fully accept the need to fully isolate for an extended period.

Many younger people are vulnerable but can live full and meaningful lives despite our health conditions. We also work, volunteer and contribute to society. Stop othering us.

Child line has seen a surge in calls.

Have they....?

Yes www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/sharp-rise-in-number-of-calls-to-childline-over-coronavirus

Google is your friend.

Why the , what do you find eyebrow worthy about that post?

Why should they be sacrificed or considered less than an 86 year old CV sufferer needing a ventilator?

Apart from the ageism discussion, young people are already dying or very, very ill. A 17yo has just died. I've heard of at least one baby in ICU with this ghastly illness.

Yes, for vulnerable children being shut up in a flat is horrible. But the accounts I have heard from friends (none of them elderly) of what a moderately bad attack is like are also pretty horrendous. And these are people who were not considered ill enough to be admitted to hospital but had to stay at home fighting pneumonia as best they could. Not a particularly pleasant prospect for the badly housed child with the abusive family either.

This is a time where awful choices have to be made.

@BeetrootRocks (Google is no ones friend atm....)
As for questioning an 'eyebrow' raise, of course Childline has seen an increase of calls (I didnt need the 'link', but many thanks for your intended back up...).

I think you'll find a 'dramatic' increase in all helpline numbers right now.

That doesn't mean every child calling is in desperate need of help from a horrible home situation. Their 'normal' has been completely stripped away, of course they need to talk, some find it difficult to talk to their parents and childlines number is advertised regularly on certain websites. It does however mean that they need to talk and for that reason I'm glad of hearing the increase of calls, it should be expected. I worry more about the children with no voice.

Oak I knew what you meant, I just disagree that's representative of the situation and level of suffering many dc will now be enduring.

Disney The horrible fact is we aren't protecting that group as chemotherapy is already being cancelled for some. And that's before even considering all those that won't get treatment early enough because regular checks were postponed, or have dx delayed etc.
Those that can manage without treatment are the only ones it's protecting, and if it was about their safety it would be easier for them to isolate for 12 weeks if the rest of the uk carried on.

Cory it's not that simple. My childhood self would have far preferred the odds of catching coronavirus, and unfortunately my childhood wasn't so uniquely awful there will only be a handful of dc currently in that position. And the simple fact is we've decided they are collateral damage.

Logically I can understand why we are sacrificing them for the greater good, as long as it is very short term, but the least we could do is acknowledge the fact they are paying an extremely high price. And make damn sure they don't pay the long term price too. Not dismiss it as being stuck in a flat.

This 'flat' thing is really starting to irritate me....

Just to clarify, is everyone now stating that children who live in a flat are all classed as 'vunerable'?

Just for the record I live with my two young Dd's 'in a flat'....it might be a very nice inner city flat, but it's still a flat (I could class it's an Apartment, but I'm not that precious when it comes to the 'better than' brigade....).

No, we don't have access to a garden, or immediate outdoor space as all of the parks and built play areas are currently cordoned off. What I am doing is trying to make the best of things I possibly can, weekly planners of play, dance, some baking...today was 'Disney Day' so costumes and a 'Carpet picnic'- so far, all going well....

They're 1 & 2, so as long as I keep them busy (they keep me busy also), happy, well fed and entertained we can ride this out. It's not like we have a choice.

Having said that, I'm feeling an enormous amount of 'mum guilt' for not spending the time outdoors we usually do, also now for living in a flat (added to by the close mindedness displayed - thanks for that, also the 'locked up' comment, as if I wasnt feeling guilty enough for 'no garden'...).

It's always 'other people' isnt it....I question the overly opinionated, it's quite a manipulative defensive manoeuvre by people who generally fear personal judgement.

Unchecked, many millions even in the UK would die, including a large number of not at all old or vulnerable doctors and nurses,

Whereupon the health service would collapse,the economy would collapse, the food chain would struggle to feed the remaining people with so many dead and those left alive grieving . Mental health problems from lockdown or mental health problems from seeing your family decimated , your job gone, no mental health ( or any other health service ) left to fall back on

Not locking down is probably a greater risk to the future economy and your future physical and mental health

Just to clarify, is everyone now stating that children who live in a flat are all classed as 'vunerable'?

One of the safeguarding leads at our school has asked that teachers compile a list of children who live in flats. No idea what she plans to do with that information- after all, ground floor flats often have gardens and some houses don't, but hey.

@BecauseReasons Seriously!? Massive whiff of discrimination there....I'd be interested to know why? Is it really the 'garden' access..?
Are there many flats where you live? It'd be a pretty full list in my area!

I'd be interested to know why too, but questions are not encouraged- I basically got told to shut up and let the bigwigs get on with it. 🤷

There are lots of flats, but it's not a high rise sort of location, more three story houses split up into two or three flats.

No, there are no 'high rises' as such in my immediate area also, but still.....

I love our flat. We (usually) have immediate access to a mass of activities, brilliant nursery for Dd1 a 5 min walk....its a city, were pretty central, so even the houses tend to be 3 story and gardenless.

Thinking that I'd be 'on a list' somewhere for us living in a flat is pretty unnerving and feels quite intrusive and presumptuous.

But seeing as though the general consensus on this thread is "kids who live in flats are vunerable' I suppose it's understandable.

Small minded & discriminating...but understandable -

@ADreamOfGood

How old are you @Borkins*?

It's very easy to say that if you're in your thirties or forties. When it comes down to it almost everyone is not ready to go yet.

Schools aren't closed so that 86yos can be saved. They're closed so that the number requiring treatment doesn't surpass the amount of equipment and number of HCP we have.*

The difference is is that 86 is around the average ages people die anyway, if not later than the average. So making it to 86 should be considered very lucky. You’ve had a more than descent shot at life and dying of old age is about that time. It’s not tragic when an 86 year dies, it’s expected.

A 40 year old dying is tragic, even more so if they have kids.

Potkettlexx My mother died when she was 94. Are you suggesting my response to her dying should not have been grief but 'oh well, she was well past 86, it was time to go?' Same with family friend's husband who I had known all my life - he was 92 when he died. Should I have just shrugged and felt no emotion?

I'm guessing you aren't 85.

RishiSunakFanClub

Ffs nobody is saying it's not sad when people die or that those left behind won't grieve. Personally, I admit, I do value the lifes of the young more than the lifes of the very elderly though. I'd hazard a guess most people do. You might find that disgusting and immoral, that all life is of equal value and equality deserving of treatment, that is a view some have and does have some moral weight, I don't agree though. If I was a doctor with one ventilator available and had to make the terrible decision who got it, I would treat the 30 year old, not the 86 year old, even if they both had a equal chance of survival. I guess some others might just toss a coin to see who got it. If I had to choose between the life of my 80 year old mother or my 11 year old daughter, it's a complete no brainer to me. This isn't to say I wouldn't be sad at the death of my, already very sick, mother.

One more thing.
oh well, she was well past 86, it was time to go?

When my fil died it was a relief for everyone, especially him. He went for being a enormously high achiever, doing amazing things in his life to spend two years in a care home confused and distressed with dementia. The last months suffering enormous pain from cancer from which there was no escape for him. It was awful for him and all his family.

Oh, and we were still all sad despite this. Many tears were shed over him.

OP, so what is your solution? Moving forward, rather than saying what should have been done. You can’t change the past. You’ve come on here and presented a problem, so what would you do to fix it if you were in charge?

TBH, I’m sick of people moaning. It IS shit and it IS a nightmare, but the sad reality is that there’s no easy answer to any of this.
But if you have a solution , it’d be great to hear it.

What from a three week lockdown?

My grandparents survived two wars.

My mum survived WW11, evacuation, not seeing her parents for years and being bombed.

I grew up back in the 60's in a grim basement flat with rats that chewed on my long hair at night, no double glazing and no heating and no money.

None of us are on antidepressants and have or had perfectly normal lives.

Stop being such an absurd snowflake.