Vulnerable children locked up in flats, deep recession, mental health eroded a future generation screwed

[Borkins]

I hope it flattens that curve. I hope it saves lives. Because huge sacrifices are being made.

Grandmi I have endless respect for ww2 veterans, but if it was about the tiny handful still alive we could safely quarantine them alongside young vulnerable patients.

Pensioner bashing again, there seems to be an assassination that they are all wealthy. There’s a lot living in poverty, perhaps labours idea of redistribution was a good idea. Also who has the right to decide ones persons life is more important than another.

It won't be a popular opinion I'm sure, but if we're going to demand the younger generation sacrifice their homes and livelihood, and in some cases mental health to keep the older generation safe, pensioner wealth should be used to at least level it.

This. Massively.

Restrictive measures cannot go on for months. Deaths are inevitable otherwise we are screwed.

I was in Japan during the Fukushima nightmare, and I saw a lot of examples of how decisions fueled by emotion and panic during a disaster can wind up killing more people long-term.

And yes, what Effic says. The patience for these measures is already wearing thinner just a few days in. Nobody will be able to stomach this a couple of months from now.

@Pixxie7

Also who has the right to decide ones persons life is more important than another.

***

The doctors very soon it looks like

Parents need to step up for their children. Teachers are expected to babysit, feed, change, clean kids, but parents moan when they have to do it for a few weeks.

What an extraordinary comment. Parent do all these things for their children and more, all the time. People are upset because their kids are being confined indoors and deprived of normal peer interaction and education, and are at risk of becoming allergy-ridden, screen-addicted and obese. Vulnerable children will face even more serious risks. Are we allowed to be concerned about this?

And yes, what Effic says. The patience for these measures is already wearing thinner just a few days in.

Are these adults you’re talking about? Because if they can’t hack a limited period of inconvenience to save tens or hundreds of thousands of lives, then they really need to hand in their grown-up cards and go back to somewhere more their speed, like a kindergarten.

Yet another thread missing the point. It’s been rehearsed to death in the news but again:

1. The risk is not just to the elderly but increasingly to the younger and fit as well as those with pre existing health conditions (some of whom may be sick but some lead normal lives).
2. I get you saying there will be a cost of the restrictions. There will be and it too is tragic. But without them there will be massive spread of cv and a huge number of cases all at once. Many people will die, including huge numbers of people who would have lived if a bed had been available or a ventilator or whatever. The nhs will be completely overwhelmed. Many healthcare workers will sicken and some will die.
3. This system collapse also means that treatment is not available for those with other conditions at all, cancer, trauma etc so there will be many additional deaths as a result of this when these people would otherwise have lived.

Hence the need to flatten the curve and spread the transmission over a longer period so that while there will still be sick people, they will be sick spread over a longer period and the right care will be available.

It's not just "inconvenience"--it's about the risk of economic depression, which will kill a lot of people.

Given that this is Mumsnet where we are continually reminded that austerity measures killed XXXXX people per year, you'd think people would be a bit more nervous about what we're about to do to the economy.

I hear you OP

I am not nervous about the economy. I am very nervous about an illness that could kill me, my folks, my pregnant SiL, countless single parents, HCPs, teachers, farmers, binmen, small business owners, other parents and workers. Make no mistake, the economy and future mental health will be fucked if we dont take these measures.

But hey, just easier to blame old people and whine about how unfair it all is that you have to stay in with your own kids. Because that's all this is: a self pitying whinge from somebody who doesnt give a fuck about anyone other than themselves and is too stupid to realise that protecting yourself is the same as protecting everyone in society right now.

Not all vulnerable children live in poverty but many will. Those stuck in tiny flats or rooms in emergency accommodation (parent or child) are more likely to be in the higher risk groups for Covid-19 than many adults. Poverty and poor living conditions are major factors in ill health. Large polluted cities like London have seen an increase in childhood asthma, for example.

lock down in a flat is considerably worse than lockdown in a house with a garden. It is shit not being able to go outside without putting neighbours at risk or being put at risk by neighbours.

And yet i still believe the cost of what we are doing is so great that it may well be worse than the virus

Agreed

It's absolutely shit in a flat isn't it. We (DP and I) live in a small flat with no outside space. Needs must. If it prevents me or my loved ones (or anybody else - adult or child) dying a painful death (possibly without medical care) it's worth it. Lockdown is temporary. It's doable however horrible. I was laid up with an injury a while back. Couldn't go anywhere. I didn't think I'd cope but surprisingly you get used to it. A daily walk makes it so much more bearable. I worry the idiots taking advantage will ruin it for the rest of us and we'll end up being completely confined inside.

And yet i still believe the cost of what we are doing is so great that it may well be worse than the virus.

What statistics and projections are you basing this belief on?

It is what it is. And we have choice in the way we look at this. We can see the negatives or the positives.

I wasn’t on planning on having to soul search on day 2 of lockdown...but further down the line, I know that it’s going to get mentally harder.

But the positives:
You can live through a lockdown.
You can use this time to meditate; try yoga; start exercising; read a book; paint the house, rearrange furniture, organise the drawers, sew on that button...whatever you want to do.
You can work on relationships or decide what you’re going to do about them in the future.
You can spend quality time with children. You can cook more homemade healthy food.

We are still aloud outside for walks and exercise or to pop to the supermarket. We are not confined to our houses.

Even on the darkest days, you can still find positives if you look for them. It doesn’t have to be bleak.

As a society we need to be more resilient and this is a test. The biggest test in a generation, but we have so much more these days to help us through it. Social media; friends on the other side of a screen; support over a forum; ability to contact health care professionals via websites and email. Online shopping. Things which past generations wouldn’t have had. We’re fortunate.

I’m not saying it’s not going to be difficult and people with poor mental health are going to struggle. But hopefully places like Mumsnet can be a place they can visit for some kind words and a reminder that this is not the end of the world and things will get better.

Allowed! Not aloud 🤦‍♀️

There seem to be a few threads at the moment saying the healthcare aspect is not worth the economic cost. If you are a poster who believes that, do you think you would change your mind if an otherwise-healthy loved one of yours died from COVID-19? Or from another illness/injury that couldn't be treated because the hospitals were swamped?

Given that this is Mumsnet where we are continually reminded that austerity measures killed XXXXX people per year, you'd think people would be a bit more nervous about what we're about to do to the economy.

An ideological economic policy deliberately imposed by a government at the expense of the poor over the wealthy is completely different to an emergency reaction in an unprecedented global pandemic.

And we’re not just protecting the elderly. We’re now protecting 5 year olds; 21 year olds; 34 year olds; 40 year olds.

Children; daughters; sons; dads; mums; sisters; brothers in addition to the elderly.

I know someone in hospital. They are 40. They are healthy. They are in a very bad way.
We don’t know if the next young person affected will be you or me. So we protect one another and just have to trust that the government will help people through financially hard time’s and the economy will recover.

I’m so worried about this op. I just think of those families in shitty housing with no garden or money to shop at expensive corner shops, no money for school supplies, games or anything else. Families who were already not coping with severe stress , abuse, addiction and trauma.

Hunkering down for many isn’t a patch on what those kids will be going through.

“Meditating, painting the house.....” some just haven’t got a clue.

I have a friend who is a matron and her wards are elderly wards. She is of the opinion that we keep people alive too long generally.

Lovely. I hope to god your friend isn’t looking after any of my elderly relatives.

“Meditating, painting the house.....” some just haven’t got a clue.

This.

If the doctors in Italy, Spain, New York, London could hear you saying that they would despair. Yes, it is about saving older people which is a very valid and important goal, but it is also about saving people of all ages with no underlying health conditions, and also about saving the millions who have underlying conditions you probably wouldn't even guess they had. It is about saving anyone who is unwell with anything else, or has an accident or is beaten...because it this were allowed to run its course there would be no health care for anything else. Bodies would quite literally pile up outside hospitals, children, young parents, people of all ages. In the US right now 40% of serious hospitalised cases are ages 20-54, and some younger than that. The economy would grind to a halt. Communities that are already struggling would be among the most damaged.

I have been thinking a lot recently about the vulnerable children who are suffering because of this lockdown. There are many near me and more must be done to help them. But lockdown seems the only option right now. I am certain they won't extend it any longer than they have to, especially if treatment and testing progresses.

If you have another scenario then please do share it, I would like to think there was another way, just cannot see it.

The kids aren’t off school just to protect the elderly anymore than everyone is on lockdown. It’s mainly to protect the nhs.

Why are the elderly being blamed? Also surely any wealth they have will probably go to their grandchildren anyway.