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Anyone else wincing at Boris’ manoeuvres to pass the blame

203 replies

Paurie · 23/03/2020 06:33

Exhibit A

So a week ago we were told schools were likely to stay open. Two days ago schools were closed, we were told to avoid pubs and gyms - but encouraged to keep exercising and stay positive. And now it’s ‘Irresponsible Brits flocking to outdoor spaces may force PM into implementing a full lockdown’

Bollocks. It’s utter bollocks.

Lockdown may be forced by the PMs hesitant and wooly-headed leadership. There might have been too many people on Snowdonia - but they were in good faith doing their best to do what they’ve been told. It’s sly and malicious to point the finger at them.

Exhibit B!

The old and vulnerable are being sent letters telling them to stay isolated for four months. For many this will be physically and psychologically near on impossible - whether because the learning curve for them is too high to change their habits, or because they directly rely on others for their care needs, or because 4 months alone is enough to send you round the twist.

This is the price for avoiding a (shorter) full UK lockdown. And in a few months time it will be a sad and regrettable consequence of people failing to follow (impossible) rules that we will see substantial numbers of old people getting sick and being denied a ventilator.

Yes - the situation is bad - but pushing the responsibility (and by implication blame) on terrified and confused octogenarians is just wrong.

Exhibit C

The doctors are not being given personal protective equipment. We are going to have a lot of doctors who get sick as a direct consequence.

What is the betting that the narrative will be that “if only they had washed their hands “or “but we had plenty of face masks if they had only thought to ask” or “COVID-19 patients should have been identified on admission isolated in a separate ward on admission”.

We can’t allow Boris to push the blame onto the people who are most affected by this to cover up the governments lack of clear forward thinking.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:09

"Isn't this similar to Angela Merkel's estimate?"

Yes, but she has actually been trying to stop it from the beginning.
She never went against WHO strategy
Germany has been doing a massive amount of testing, monitoring AND tracing contacts

Current rules are that we can only talk to 1 other person outside the home

  • in my region, it is forbidden to talk to anyone at all, other than for essentials, so no socialising
LittleRootie · 23/03/2020 11:12

BigChocFrenzy are you allowed out for walks? Are you allowed to drive?

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 23/03/2020 11:15

@wecandothispeeps
Exactly right. This is not the time for political stagging off. Our government os doing its best. At no point did they (because unless the idiots have not noticed, this is a team, not Boris) say schools would not shut and other measures, they said not yet. Low and behold people took not a blind bit of notce of socila distancing or even isoltion, hence ramping up. It is a shame not to be able to trust the Great British Public so step by step we have tp move towrds authoritarianism. Plea sOP step away from your thinking and lets pull toether never mind politics or personal slagging off. If you were treated in the workplace like this it would be bullying,

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 23/03/2020 11:16

Sorry typos

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 11:16

Angela Merkel can't escape rival criticism either it seems;

"Opinion: Germany's disappointing lack of leadership on coronavirus."

"In comparison with other European countries, Germany has been late to the coronavirus-bashing party. Chancellor Angela Merkel has been slow to show much-needed direction as the crisis grows, says DW's Cristina Burack."

www.dw.com/en/opinion-germanys-disappointing-lack-of-leadership-on-coronavirus/a-52819158

How is Macron doing?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:16

"Germany banned the export of protective equipment at the beginning of March."

Banned ventilators, but has exported about 1 million masks and other equipment
In this crisis, ordinary families are keeping essentials for their nuclear family and not givning to e.g. cousins or neighbours, unless they have sufficient spare

As I posted, Germany is even taking in critically ill patients from France and putting them on ventilators in critical care wards

... Despite German hospitals in some areas reportedly being full now

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:21

NO leader can escape criticism
It's not disloyal to criticise your own govt

Noone is telling us here to stop criticising Merkel or Macron or the Italian govt for delaying
Why is criticism so disloyal in the UK ?

Almost every leader acted too late - because of political & economic considerations
None of them wanted to smash their GDP by 10-20%, destroy so many businesses which is what these lockdowns do

BUT
The Uk is one of the very few countries that spent vital weeks ignoring WHO advice

So that is a special UK fuckup, on top of the delays in most other countries

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 11:23

The Brussels Times 4th March

"Germany on Wednesday banned the export of protective medical equipment, including masks, as the outbreak of the new coronavirus is spreading with now more than 200 confirmed cases in the country, the authorities announced."

"A decree “was published today” prohibiting “the export of medical protection equipment (masks, gloves, suits, etc.)”, announced in a joint statement the Ministry of Health and the Interior."

"Exceptions are only possible “under certain conditions”, including for humanitarian aid, the crisis unit set up by the two ministries said."

www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/98438/coronavirus-germany-bans-export-of-medical-protective-equipment/

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:28

"it depends on supply chains"

No country can be self-sufficient in even vital supplies,
unless we accept a massive reduction in standard of living and a Soviet-type controlled economy

The biggest problem with supply chains at the moment is the huge amount of raw materials and equipment the Western world imports from China

Even countries that can manufacture things lack the raw materials for e.g. many medicines

btw, If you want to worry about something, then worry about the UK only producing half its food,

  • which has been the situation since the days of empire, at least over a hundred years ago, nothing to do with EU membership

The UK has been selling off properties and core businesses, some with advanced tech knowledge & patents, to the USA, Japan, EU countries, Russia, Middle East, anywhere ....

The govt has long put up the UK for sale, to let the wealthy make huge profits

  • but this has the disadvantage that much of what the UK depends on is under foreign control, who will not prioritise the UK.
BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:30

"Brussels Times 4th March"

Out of date
Germany has exported some equipment since then, as it has manufactured more stock
"under certain conditions” meant when it can afford to do so

CendrillonSings · 23/03/2020 11:31

Quite possible that he'll stand down in a few months - he didn't plan on the PM job being actual work

What tedious rubbish. The only way he’ll step down is if he’s totally medically incapacitated. Otherwise, he’ll see this thing all the way through to the end.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:33

Merkel weeks ago ordered 10,000 ventilators from the largest German manufacturer of them,
with more orders to come

On Newsnight, the only specialist UK supplier was saying they still haven't received an order for extra from the govt

instead, firms who have never made this complicated kit have been tolling up and learning how to do it

This is baffling
Is Grayling in charge - like contracts to firms with no ships ?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:37

"The only way he’ll step down is if he’s totally medically incapacitated.

Looking at his previous work history,
he is a workshy incompetent who lies & twists constantly
a playboy who gets others to do the work for him, as when London mayor

Of all the Tories to choose as leader in a crisis, he is the absolute worse pick

It's not politics, it's about competence and work ethic:
I'd be happy to have Ted Heath, John Major, even Thatcher in charge

I agree that politicians are at greater risk though, due to the sheer numbers of essential people they keep meeting,
some of whom will have been in contact with health personnel

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 11:38

btw, If you want to worry about something, then worry about the UK only producing half its food

Not worried at all - went to our local branch of COOK - no shortage of frozen stuff at all - expensive mind.

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 11:39

Looking at his previous work history, he is a workshy

Where did you look?

Redwoodmaz · 23/03/2020 11:41

People have been ignoring the Social Distancing advice!!!
THAT is what will result in a UK lockdown.

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 11:43

"Brussels Times 4th March"
Out of date

Yes, I know - the European Commission Health Minister and Belgium's Health Minister complained - Germany obviously had a change of heart.

Mlou32 · 23/03/2020 11:45

I don't think Boris is pushing the blame, I think the blame quite rightly lies on the selfish idiots who won't take heed of government advice!

The message is clear. Stay at home. If you do have to leave the house for an essential reason, maintain social distancing and practice proper hygiene measures ie washing hands etc. Its not hard to follow; it has been mentioned in official speeches, it's been all over social media, on the news etc.

Blame those folk who are happy sauntering about, quite happy and willing to spread it and potentially kill others, just because they've been told to stay at home but don't want to.

MashedPotatoBrainz · 23/03/2020 11:50

Yep I'm wincing. Britain has a leadership vacuum. Boris is not up to the job and his action, or lack thereof, is costing people their lives.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 11:53

"the European Commission Health Minister and Belgium's Health Minister complained - Germany obviously had a change of heart."

Yes, the EU Commission has pressured all members to help each other when possible,
including taking in patients from other member states who are overwhlemed

If Germany wasn't in the EU ....
they might not be accepting patients from France,
at a time when the German health system & public health services are coping with 25,000 cases

So definitely EU membership is leading to more cooperation

Also there is an 800 billion EU plan to help rebuild EU economies

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 12:01

With stronger, clearer leadership, imo there would be fewer stupid selfish idiots carrying on as normal

Every country has the less cooperative chunk of its population
No good just appealing to their common sense or civic duty - they have too littel

Good leadership and enforceable rules - not just "advice" - reduces the loopholes they can exploit,
makes them fear the consequences more

People in Italy, Spain, Germany are getting fined or even jailed for breaking the rules
Can't fine someone for ignoring "advice"

BigChocFrenzy · 23/03/2020 12:13

The UK - & USA - are above the death totals at which wiser countries locked down

We have the example of Italy to warn us - they didn't have that example

The best way to stop such a pandemic is with testing, testing, testing AND contact tracing
as the WHO kept saying
The UK did too little of that as well

Tonyaster · 23/03/2020 12:16

People not listening to advice are to blame. 110% totally and utterly to blame.

Clavinova · 23/03/2020 12:28

So definitely EU membership is leading to more cooperation

After some persuasion -

"6 March BRUSSELS (Reuters) - EU officials sought in vain on Friday to persuade France, Germany and other European countries to lift controls on the export of protective medical gear, which officials said could hurt the bloc’s collective effort to fight the coronavirus."

uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu/eu-fails-to-persuade-france-germany-to-lift-coronavirus-health-gear-controls-
idUKKBN20T166

"March 14 Germany, under EU pressure, amends decree on exports of protective equipment."

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-equipment/germany-under-eu-pressure-amends-decree-on-exports-of-protective-equipment-idUSKBN2110ON

Supply chain problem for Switzerland (yes, I know);

"9 March German customs authorities have blocked the export of a truck filled with 240,000 protective masks to Switzerland, which Swiss authorities have said is part of a broader export ban on protective gear."

"Switzerland has called for an emergency meeting with the German ambassador about the issue. As reported by the NZZ, State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) on Sunday called upon “German authorities to release the blocked masks immediately”."

"The situation is particularly severe for Switzerland as the country produces very little protective gear."

www.thelocal.com/20200309/germany-blocks-protective-masks-headed-for-switzerland

New York Times;
"Opinion Germany Has More Than Enough Ventilators. It Should Share Them."

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-europe-germany.html

jasjas1973 · 23/03/2020 14:08

BJ supporters can't really expect the lack of PPE equipment & the ignoring of WHO advice in JAN & FEB to go without criticism can they? no, maybe don't answer that one!!!

Since when has advising a population not to do XY or Z ever worked? its ludicrous to blame the people, they are doing what people do, humans have a very high amount of selfishness in their dna, its why we have laws... loads! and even then, people choose to ignore many.

We saw what happened in Italy and Spain but did nothing, so people are streaming out of the SE to their 2nd homes and holiday breaks..... criminal as people who would have lived will now die but even now he just advises.

Even Hancock said this morning "its ultimately the PM decision" - so lets have less of "he is just part of a team" no he is the PM of this country.
A job even his siblings said he wasn't fit to do.

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