Anyone else wincing at Boris’ manoeuvres to pass the blame

[Paurie]

Exhibit A

So a week ago we were told schools were likely to stay open. Two days ago schools were closed, we were told to avoid pubs and gyms - but encouraged to keep exercising and stay positive. And now it’s ‘Irresponsible Brits flocking to outdoor spaces may force PM into implementing a full lockdown’

Bollocks. It’s utter bollocks.

Lockdown may be forced by the PMs hesitant and wooly-headed leadership. There might have been too many people on Snowdonia - but they were in good faith doing their best to do what they’ve been told. It’s sly and malicious to point the finger at them.

Exhibit B!

The old and vulnerable are being sent letters telling them to stay isolated for four months. For many this will be physically and psychologically near on impossible - whether because the learning curve for them is too high to change their habits, or because they directly rely on others for their care needs, or because 4 months alone is enough to send you round the twist.

This is the price for avoiding a (shorter) full UK lockdown. And in a few months time it will be a sad and regrettable consequence of people failing to follow (impossible) rules that we will see substantial numbers of old people getting sick and being denied a ventilator.

Yes - the situation is bad - but pushing the responsibility (and by implication blame) on terrified and confused octogenarians is just wrong.

Exhibit C

The doctors are not being given personal protective equipment. We are going to have a lot of doctors who get sick as a direct consequence.

What is the betting that the narrative will be that “if only they had washed their hands “or “but we had plenty of face masks if they had only thought to ask” or “COVID-19 patients should have been identified on admission isolated in a separate ward on admission”.

We can’t allow Boris to push the blame onto the people who are most affected by this to cover up the governments lack of clear forward thinking.

Well the British public did not behave in a responsible way at the weekend, so measures have been put in place to prevent it happening again.
I wasn't a fan, but I have to say he's growing on me (and I think he's growing into his role as well). I think Corbyn would have been much worse in this current situation. My neighbours also agree (chats over the fence whilst gardening is our current social life)
We should all be trying to pull together in these strange and rapidly evolving times rather than carping.

Doctors are making money out of this situation by selling Covid 19 testing kits for ££££

To be fair though - South Korea licenced private testing centres to keep up with demand;

"When I got there, someone opened the car door for me," Koo Ji-young told ABC News after receiving his test results for a $140 fee."^

abcnews.go.com/International/massive-coronavirus-testing-program-south-korea-underscores-nimble/story?id=69226222

That’s nice. Were you a scholar at Oxford too?

Yes.

BJ - or rather Cummings - changed his mind and henc the strategy
To be fair, they hadn't realised before that "herd immunity" would cost ½ million lives

(paywall) Inside No 10 How Boris Johnson changed his priorities: save lives first, and then salvage the economy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

The meeting that will change British society for a generation took place on the evening of Thursday, March 12.
......
“There was a collision between the science and reality.”
......
Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide,
became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter
if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and
^the UK developed “herd immunity”.

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy.
^
Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.^
^
At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”,

Cummings changed his mind.
In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe.

Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average.
Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak.

A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”

By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown.

“Dominic himself had a conversion,”
a senior Tory said.

“He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’,
to
‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”
.......
Department of Health officials had impressed on Hancock that the death rate in Wuhan province was 3.4% when the hospitals were overrun and 0.7% elsewhere in China.

Clavinova I live in Berlin. You are right the cafes were open from 6am - 6pm but only for takeaways. Sitting in cafes and restaurants has been banned for about a week now.

We are also now forbidden from socialising with more than one person outside our immediate family with whom we live.

My husband, son and I have been at home since Sat 14th. Our food has been delivered weekly.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

MPs speculate that there will be two big inquiries

• an international one into the origins of the virus in China’s live animal “wet markets”;

and a second into the government’s preparations and policy decisions.

“If we end up like Italy in two weeks’ time and 30-year-old doctors are dropping dead, the government is going to be in big trouble,”
a Labour MP said.

< President Truman: "The buck stops here"

• BJ will get the credit if casualties in the end turn out to be acceptable,

but get the blame if his delays & policy changes costs thousands of lives.

Whatever our politics, let's all hope he has finally got it right - and in time >

Clav

We aren't in the EU, have refused to take part in EU wide measures and skype meetings and when BJ stated which organisations he was in contact with he specifically ruled out mention of the EU, rather childish.
Do you really expect countries that do not have enough equipment for their own citizens to be exporting it.
Perhaps we should be sending PPE to other commonwealth countries? no didn't think so.

Socialist Cuba, much maligned by many in the UK has sent medics to Spain to help out.

One of Boris's many mistakes was in thinking to British public could be relied upon to do the right thing. This was the moment for him to step up to the plate and lead - shut pubs, parks, cafes gyms etc, enforce confinement tell people what they could and could not do and punish those who refused to get into line. Instead he has dithered - for fear of actually laying his cards on the table. Not for the first time people in the UK are in denial about what lies around the corner - just like those who think we have got Brexit done just because Boris says it is (despite the fact we haven't even started yet and have that joy in store for us just as we start to emerge from this disaster). The tsunami has not yet hit the UK - we are roughly ten days behind Italy - doctors in Italy have tried to give us the heads up, Boris has chosen to ignore this and go his own way for fear of being unpopular. I agree he is in a no win situation - he would have been unpopular if he had done the right thing earlier, but he will be even more unpopular if thousands of people die. What the country needs at a time like this is a leader who is prepared to do the right thing regardless - someone who is the polar opposite of Boris Johnson who never does anything unless there is something in it for him.

I live in Germany
As pp said, everything except food shops has been shut for at least a week, including schools

We can only talk to one other person outside the home

• in fact in my region, we can't talk to anyone outside those we live with, except for essential business like buying food or meds.

Merkel has made it clear what we have to do here
and she has to cope with a federal system, in which the 16 states have a large amount of automomy over what they do,
so she had to get & keep them all on board, regional leaders from different parties

BJ has the advantage of far more centralised power than almost any other Western democracy

Boris is a weak man, he has not the backbone to be faithful to his wife, do we really expect him to be good in a crisis. Yes the advice as flipflopped all over the place no wonder people are not taking it seriously.

Cummings was accused (but denies) he said to get all the old die to protect the economy

Boris made the mistake of thinking he could say to an adult "don't do that or people will die" and have them take notice. Apparently it's his fault that most people haven't grown out of the need to have a grown up slap their hand away from the hot stove.

Corbyn would have been so very much worse "we need to fully discuss this" " it's all someone else's fault" "universal income Diane has worked the finances out"

“If we end up like Italy in two weeks’ time and 30-year-old doctors are dropping dead, the government is going to be in big trouble,”

a Labour MP said.

Was it a Corbynite? Coloured me shocked that those idiots would be doing their best to damage the government during a national crisis!

re EU countries helping each other out:

People in every street are first making sure their family can eat and have their medicines, before giving essential supplies to their neighbour

However, the EU Commission have asked countries with some spare capacity to help their neighbours and

hospitals in Germany and Switzerland, have been taking some patients from France, e.g.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/he-sacrificed-himself-tributes-to-first-french-doctor-to-die-from-coronavirus

“If we end up like Italy in two weeks’ time and 30-year-old doctors are dropping dead, the government is going to be in big trouble,”

As I posted, the govt will get the credit if things go ok in the end, but the blame if it doesn't
That's always happened

Same as Blair with the Iraq war - of course the Tories tore into him afterwards, because he cocked up
"The buck stops here"

So far the Opposition have been very muted in criticism, but they can't completely shirk their duty to scrutinise and warn the government

If it does all go horribly wrong though, then the Opposition will be the least of BJ's worries

He's made a living out of lying, it's too late now to try to pretend h'es Churchill in wartime.

During the election period I was told people liked him because he's 'fun' and 'unconventional'. Those dubious characteristics are worse than useless at the moment.

In every country around the world that acted too late, the govt will be crucified, whatever their party

This won't be like "normal" govt cockups that most folk shrug their shoulders over
Mismanaging this kind of disaster means political annihilation

Even managing a crisis brilliantly doesn't always pay off in electoral terms

• remember Churchill losing to Labour in 1945:

That was because voters thought Labour would better manage the rebuilding and wanted a Welfare State, not the same old pre-war shit
and
also because many hated what Churchill had done before the war - they hadn't forgotten

Blair won an election after Iraq BigChocFrenzy - but that was different of course. He was able to just carry on banging the drum about the war on terror.

This is a different type of war altogether. OP is right, Johnson and his gov are trying to shoulder off the blame for their total failure to think and communicate clearly and consistently. History will say it was all the fault of 'stupid irresponsible' people (and seem to have a lot of backers on MN for that notion)

You ARE political point scoring and it's a scummy thing to do at a time such as this. For those who think they know better than the experts, I suggest you take over at the next press briefing instead of them.

You ARE political point scoring and it's a scummy thing to do at a time such as this

You're not going to be able to shut down people with that line. Of course people are complaining about the tragic failure of this gov to act appropriately. It's practically a public duty to point out what better measures they should be taking

BJ is no expert
and Oppositions always oppose the government, unless the crisis is so serious that they are brought into govt, as in WW2

Until then, it is their duty to question and hold govt to account

the question is whether he - Cummings - overruled them until recently
The enquiry will show whether the previous UK strategy - against WHO policy - was on the advice of UK experts - in which case their fault - or because the govt chose "herd immunity" itself

The Times view on Boris Johnson and coronavirus

Critical of him and they are normally staunch Tory supporters, being owned by Murdoch

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-times-view-on-boris-johnson-and-coronavirus-war-leader-s5kwgksb8

Boris Johnson’s initial response to the coronavirus crisis has been hesitant and behind the curve.

That must change if he is to maintain public confidence
....
The truth is that [Boris Johnson’s] performance so far has been chequered. Since the start he has appeared behind the curve.

Considerable time that could have been spent preparing for the crisis appears to have been squandered.

The World Health Organisation first warned of the risk of a deadly global pandemic in mid-January,
by which point the coronavirus was spreading rapidly in China and parts of Asia.

Yet the government spent much of February apparently distracted with fights with some of Britain’s institutions, including the civil service, the judiciary and the BBC.

Even at the time many questioned why the prime minister disappeared from view for a week in the middle of the month to his grace-and-favour home in Kent.

He did not preside over his first Cobra meeting to discuss the crisis until March 3.

Even as the scale became apparent, Mr Johnson’s response to it has been uneven.
For the most of the first half of March, the official advice was simply to wash one’s hands.

On March 12, as countries across Europe and the world closed schools, restaurants, bars and shops and introduced lockdowns and travel bans, the government merely advised that those ill with coronavirus symptoms should self-isolate for seven days ...

Mr Johnson’s liberal instincts and reluctance to restrict civil liberties would normally be admirable.

But dithering over whether to shut schools, bars and restaurants, combined with anonymous briefings warning of imminent lockdowns that are then ruled out by ministers, may have only made the crisis worse.

Panicked shoppers have stripped supermarkets of supplies
while many Londoners will have escaped to the country, almost certainly further spreading the virus.^

City traders say that doubts about Mr Johnson’s response contributed to the run on sterling.

Britain’s death toll is now at the same level as Italy’s two weeks ago, yet already one hospital says that it has been overwhelmed and the NHS is warning of shortages of ventilators and protective clothing ...

And if the government is forced to introduce even more stringent restrictions to halt an escalating epidemic,
they may ask why they weren’t introduced sooner, as they have been in much of the rest of the world.

The country needs to know that Mr Johnson has a coherent strategy.
Otherwise the prime minister who dreamt of being Churchill may find himself cast as Neville Chamberlain.

BigChocFrenzy
You have given me your edited version of the Times article - where is the bit that paints Boris Johnson as the 'hero' of the piece as reported elsewhere?

if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right

Isn't this similar to Angela Merkel's estimate?

"Angela Merkel estimates that 60% to 70% of the German population will contract the coronavirus."

www.businessinsider.com/angela-merkel-estimates-coronavirus-will-hit-large-majority-german-population-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

ElliePhillips
Sitting in cafes and restaurants has been banned for about a week now.

Perhaps stricter in Berlin than elsewhere;

"Restaurants and cafes can stay open but they will have to shut daily by 6pm.The earliest they can open is 6am.They should introduce distance regulations for the tables or, for example, limit the number of guests."

jasjas1973
We aren't in the EU

Yes I know - I was thinking of Italy - Germany banned the export of protective equipment at the beginning of March.

Do you really expect countries that do not have enough equipment for their own citizens to be exporting it.

I quoted the European Commission Health Minister and Belgium's Health Minister - they didn't seem very happy. I suppose it depends on supply chains as well - if Germany usually supplies all of country x's protective equipment and then they suddenly ban its export that it obviously going to be a problem.

Quite possible that he'll stand down in a few months - he didn't plan on the PM job being actual work -

and a new Tory leader will take over,
maybe Gove - who is a competent bastard -
or Sunak - who has indeed shown impressive leadership & communication skills

AwrightDoreenTakea FuckinDay off

"flicking" or "fleeing"??
and if it is safer for your kids to be in the Highlands than in London what is wrong with that? They are less likely to get it than those with compromised immune systems.

sanctimonious