Anyone else wincing at Boris’ manoeuvres to pass the blame

[Paurie]

Exhibit A

So a week ago we were told schools were likely to stay open. Two days ago schools were closed, we were told to avoid pubs and gyms - but encouraged to keep exercising and stay positive. And now it’s ‘Irresponsible Brits flocking to outdoor spaces may force PM into implementing a full lockdown’

Bollocks. It’s utter bollocks.

Lockdown may be forced by the PMs hesitant and wooly-headed leadership. There might have been too many people on Snowdonia - but they were in good faith doing their best to do what they’ve been told. It’s sly and malicious to point the finger at them.

Exhibit B!

The old and vulnerable are being sent letters telling them to stay isolated for four months. For many this will be physically and psychologically near on impossible - whether because the learning curve for them is too high to change their habits, or because they directly rely on others for their care needs, or because 4 months alone is enough to send you round the twist.

This is the price for avoiding a (shorter) full UK lockdown. And in a few months time it will be a sad and regrettable consequence of people failing to follow (impossible) rules that we will see substantial numbers of old people getting sick and being denied a ventilator.

Yes - the situation is bad - but pushing the responsibility (and by implication blame) on terrified and confused octogenarians is just wrong.

Exhibit C

The doctors are not being given personal protective equipment. We are going to have a lot of doctors who get sick as a direct consequence.

What is the betting that the narrative will be that “if only they had washed their hands “or “but we had plenty of face masks if they had only thought to ask” or “COVID-19 patients should have been identified on admission isolated in a separate ward on admission”.

We can’t allow Boris to push the blame onto the people who are most affected by this to cover up the governments lack of clear forward thinking.

I don't think that we actually have the capacity to enforce a lockdown if a large part of the population refuse to comply. We have fair less local police than France or Italy and using the army prematurely will be regarded as heavy handed. In Italy and France, police have had to be out fining people very heavily early on - and what if people can't pay? Do you really want to spend a lot of resources trying to enforce against people whose income has dried up? So a large proportion of the public have to clamour for it and want to obey it. We will be there soon - sadly.

I didnt vote for BJ and have criticised him in the past but seriously how can the government know all the answers? We are on totally unchartered territory and they are literally having to make up the rules as they go along, according to the information they have.
They said gcses would be cancelled (since schools have closed and involves children being in close proximity to each other) Then people are immediately saying how will they be graded,will they be delayed what will this mean ?etc when this has probably never happened before.
Lots saying he chose the economy over peoples lives. I dont think the 2 can easily be separated. Putting huge amounts of people out of work (which has already happened, and will continue to do so) does affect peoples lives. It's not called "making a living, or livelihood " for nothing. The first round of redundancies (bars, cafes, pubs, cinemas etc) will have affected a lot of people on NMW or zero hours contracts, some of whom might have already been reliant on food banks....which are running low because people are stockpiling. Children on FSM may be more vulnerable now especially if a parent cant work at all.
We're facing a future recession and potential rise in child poverty. Lots of deaths were blamed on the last round of austerity, so there isn't a clear cut answer.

we were told to avoid pubs and gyms - but encouraged to keep exercising and stay positive. And now it’s ‘Irresponsible Brits flocking to outdoor spaces may force PM into implementing a full lockdown’
I don't like Boris and think communication should have been clearer because now isn't the time for his babbling, however a lot of issues are because a proportion of the great British public think they're special cases.

Told to keep active and it's fine to go out for a walk but keep your distance and avoid crowds = mass day trips to popular outdoor attractions and spaces

Told pubs are closing and not to go out for one last pint = people flocking to pubs for one last pint like they'd never drink again

Told to send children to school only if necessary = my DH is at home but doesn't fancy juggling WFH and watching the kids like everyone else because he's super special and unique so we'll send them in

Socially distance and avoid large crowds = go to the seaside for a day trip and huddle in crowds for fish and chips as usual

Self isolate if you get a new cough = no I won't because I'm more intelligent than experts and can tell what virus/cold is causing my cough. It's just a cough.

Some people are idiots.

I reckon we would have lost the war if social media had been around then and it's a blight now, that much is very clear. A constant 'wall of hate and rage' that helps nobody. It's not edifying and a sad indictment of the baseline of whingeing that passes for 'conversation' here at the moment

You need to check your history then.
Chamberlain declared war on Germany in 1939, constant criticism and indecision (sound familiar?) led to him resigning and Churchill becoming PM in May 1940.

Not providing NHS/GPs PPE is not a little thing.... its a fucking great big fcuk up.

He’s not passing the blame on some stuff he’s telling the truth. People have been given a chance to do the right thing, social distance, self isolate etc. However I am amazed at the number of people flouting this, all those who flocked to Ben Nevis should have just turned round when they saw how busy it was but did t for e ample.

He’s taking advice as it’s needed trying to slow this down. People think they know better and ignore. Let’s hope it’s full lockdown soon

Re PPE I agree they need to sort this asap

He will be judged by his decisions early on when we had information from China and Italy and didn't act. That can't be undone. Other countries are learning from us. New Zealand has just announced a month long total lockdown - no schools open at all, for example- because they have reached 100 cases.

It doesn't help that he reverts to his typical bumbling and buffoonery when really he needs to adopt a sober tone. Operation Last Gasp - really?? Rishi Sunak has completely shown him up by acting decisively and in the manner he presents himself. I can't see a time when I would ever vote Conservative, but I'm glad there are at least some politicians in government I can respect.

The government as a whole need to take responsibility for the dire state of hospitals and lack of equipment. That has been years in the making.

Nope, the only thing I'm wincing at is your attempt to politicized an extremely grave situation. Shame on you.

JasJas, I'm coming at it from the perspective that this constant wrangling on here is just feeding the rage and it's really damaging. it's an echo-chamber of negativity in the main. As for history, Lord HawHaw was executed for his part in spreading misery. Eyes wide open is one thing but this site has been taken over with constant negativity.

PPE is something that should be a-political, like waste management - available and decided without any government being able to interfere with the arrangements already planned and agreed. I don't agree with the policies of any of the governments that we've had but we have to have one and this is the one that we have. Ranting about them isn't going to change that and I really don't think Boris is scrolling by to see what MN thinks.

I have loathed Blair since Iraq, but can you imagine how different the situation in the UK would be right now with a real leader? Hell, he’d probably have made massive early efforts to coordinate and lead a response across the Western world.

Cam77 is right. We've lost lots of valuable time. Total lockdown now might just save lives but he's still messing about. I've written to my MP but it will probably be ignored

@nopointinstaying
Choosing not to lockdown is a political decision. Having the lowest hospital beds per capita in the EU was a political decision. So honestly I don’t know what you are withering on about. Politics touches everything. And as far as I’m aware, us free people of the UK have the right to discuss political decisions, as much as you may not wish to hear it. Called “free speech” I believe.

Even the Sunday Times yesterday reported

Did you read the article yourself? I can't access it without paying.One news outlet said that Boris Johnson was cast as the 'hero' in the article - if that's correct it doesn't suit the op's narrative.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

There was a dreadful bug round these parts in the winter too. It spread like wildfire.

My colleague has been sensible but only this morning, someone was at the train station coughing away and spitting out what they coughed up.

A polite offer of a hanky was met with a ‘fuck off’ ... and a face like a well hoofed arse.

Hope your mum recovered well.

Oh, ffs. I loathe Boris Johnson in general, but in this instance, I see nothing whatsoever to be gained from all this whingeing about what he is doing. Actually trying to do what told rather than making the entire country feel more anxious with endless criticism and pretending to be thick by claiming even crystal clear advice is confusing, helps nobody.

LyingW

Don't think Hawhaw was executed for saying Chamberlain wasn't being decisive enough!! he operated from Nazi Germany and called upon the UK to surrender...... funnily enough he was born in USA.

If a political party doesn't order in and distribute PPE, then that by its very nature is "Political" NHS staff are being infected by CV because of this.

I also think you underestimate the pressure SM has, the PPE issue has garnered the Govt into action, the pictures of the fools over the W/E might make Johnson act........

To sit back and allow any Govt to act without fair criticism would be scandalous, esp as we are not at war.

@Clavinova
I wouldn’t say a leader following the terrible advice of an inferior staff member for two/three weeks - while simultaneously ignoring the vast consensus of the international community of scientists - is heroic.

@Walkaround
I agree. But we can’t let the Tory press whitewash what they did either. If you don’t admit and learn from mistakes, you repeat them.

*I am a labour voter, but even I can see Boris is doing his level best.

Quite frankly political point scoring at this moment in time is very distasteful. We should be pulling together op, and you are doing the precise opposite.

Please stop.*

I agree with this totally. Yes, there are mistakes being made and some things I wish we were doing differently, but there isn't anyone who could navigate their way through this shitshow perfectly.

Herd immunity was never a government strategy. Ffs. Stop reading sensationalist headlines. If anyone disagrees with me then I want the proof that it came out his mouth.

And it’s a well know phenomenon that you learn better from mistakes if they are pointed out constructively, rather than being attacked in a way that only makes you entrench and try to defend your position.

The advice to work from home where possible has also not reached many employers. DH is still going to work in a busy office because his boss doesn't believe in home working even though their job is perfectly possible to do at home. The government needs to be clear to employers that a failure to allow employees to WFH is putting lives at risk unnecessarily.

Yes

I have loathed Blair since Iraq, but can you imagine how different the situation in the UK would be right now with a real leader?

Really? Richard Horton, the editor of the Lancet who is criticising the current government wrote this article for the Guardian in 2007;

"A monstrous war crime"
Richard Horton

"With more than 650,000 civilians dead in Iraq, our government [Tony Blair's Labour government] must take responsibility for its lies."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/mar/28/iraq.freedomofinformation

Cam77
Did you read the Sunday Times article yourself? Can you copy and paste so we can all read it?

The Government has made it crystal clear that not allowing people to work from home where this is possible is putting lives at risk. People are just being selfish wankers...

"This Labour government, which includes Gordon Brown as much as it does Tony Blair, is party to a war crime of monstrous proportions. Yet our political consensus prevents any judicial or civil society response. Britain is paralysed by its own indifference."

"At a time when we are celebrating our enlightened abolition of slavery 200 years ago, we are continuing to commit one of the worst international abuses of human rights of the past half-century. It is inexplicable how we allowed this to happen. It is inexplicable why we are not demanding this government's mass resignation."

"Two hundred years from now, the Iraq war will be mourned as the moment when Britain violated its delicate democratic constitution and joined the ranks of nations that use extreme pre-emptive killing as a tactic of foreign policy. Some anniversary that will be."

· Richard Horton is a doctor and the editor of the Lancet