Lockdown is not the answer

[NellyGrace]

We have a vulnerable family member and have been isolating for 9 days. This is unsustainable. It will drive us mad.

Whilst it was just the vulnerable we could cope as we could still go out to walk. We have no garden.

If the crazy want to carry on mixing. Let them. The vulnerable can hide if they choose.

Test like South Korea and isolate the pockets of disease.

We should not be allowing governments to use this as a way to take away our freedom.

We're not trying to stop people dying, we can't, because the virus was not contained at source it is now endemic in the population around the world
all we can do now it's try to slow down the rate of deaths so that we do not overwhelm the infrastructure of our country

People who are on my wavelength

You might get some comfort from this speech

Those who aren’t okay with death - don’t watch it! When dad wasn’t dying from his cancer and just suffering, it reassured me the suffering would end

My nan died last year from a chest infection, I was devastated! But now I am THANKFUL! Because of selfish people this virus would of 100% killed her and that would of been even more devastating.

I'm wondering the same OP. What we are doing now appears not to be working so not only are we destroying the economy but we are STILL spreading the virus. Whats the point of that?

People need to remember that a serious depression could actually kill more people (potentially vulnerable kids in poverty and young people too) than CV will.

There has to be a balance between protecting others and placing ourselves in economic disaster to the point the death rate will actually be higher than the virus

we need a proper lockdown.

Because otherwise people like my DH;s law firm are stil insisting that admin and support staff go in as long as they sit away from each other (in an open plan office FFS) and threatening dismissal for those who do not agree.

There is not a single person in DH's office who cannot work from home. Not one. But senior management think that the admin staff need to come in to man the phones and send post. When in reality all phones can be redirected, and people can send post from their own homes by e-mail or if they were supplied with a book of stamps.

But never mind... all to keep the business gfoing and fuck the staff, eh?

It will ONLY take a proper lockdown for such fuckwittery selfishness to change.

@MimiLaRue do you want to give it some time before jumping to the conclusion that it’s not working?

Or are you a scientist with access to new studies that we don’t know about?

Autumn there are not going to be millions dead here from hardship and starvation! The government are putting support in place. Yes it's going to be shit and yes businesses will fold and yes the stock market is going down the drain but we are still going to be in a better place than most of the world.

do you want to give it some time before jumping to the conclusion that it’s not working

I dont need to. I live in a popular tourist hotspot by the sea. Ive seen the pictures from yesterday- it was heaving with people- massive crowds. People are. not. listening.

OP South Korea practised social isolation (ie lockdown) as well as the tracking.

We should not be allowing governments to use this as a way to take away our freedom If everyone complies for a number of weeks, long term freedom is more likely. If people don't comply, long term suffering is more likely, I think.

If you can't spend 9 days with your family then I think the problem lies with you.

Mimi your post wasn’t about the fact that people weren’t listening and need to get themselves into lockdown.

It was ‘what’s the point’ in lockdown and worrying about economic issues.

Either you want people to be in lockdown or you don’t.

Either you want people to be in lockdown or you don’t

You misunderstood. I'm saying do a proper police enforced lockdown or none at all. If we did a proper one, like in Italy i'd have more hope. But we arent doing that- people are still out in full crowd force. We are in a weird wishy ashy half arsed lockdown where people arent listening and they arent social distancing. So we are risking the economy AND spreading the virus at the moment.

Lockdown is pointless unless people are actually obeying the rules. They arent.

I'm wondering the same OP. What we are doing now appears not to be working so not only are we destroying the economy but we are STILL spreading the virus. Whats the point of that?

*People need to remember that a serious depression could actually kill more people (potentially vulnerable kids in poverty and young people too) than CV will.

There has to be a balance between protecting others and placing ourselves in economic disaster to the point the death rate will actually be higher than the virus* (MimiLaRue)

Yes. I agree entirely.

I think the economic fallout of this current policy will kill more prematurely than CV will.

I expect we will 'have' to go to full on lock down because people cannot obey social distancing, now; the 'fully support the old and vulnerable to self-isolate' (so we don't have to destroy our economy) ship has well and truly sailed.

As an aside, the 'young/fit/healthy' who have died of CV numbers are still vanishingly small, globally.

haven't RTFT but in case anyone doesn't want to give them the clicks,
here's Do Not Link version

The Virus could kill large numbers of people and destroy the infrastructure of many countries
The only way to stop the virus is severe lockdown ....which could kill large numbers of people and destroy the infrastructure of many countries
It's all very rock and a hard place isn't it 😳

Normally MN is quite kind about people struggling with domestic abuse. But not in this thread. :(

The thing about the tens of thousands of deaths and thousands more suffering badly even if they survive... they are overwhelmingly people who were going to die within 3 yrs, anyway, and already have severe health issues.

I don't know what's best. I wish so many people didn't insist that the decision is simple. It is Not. I hope that So-Korea is showing the world that there are more than 2 stark choices.

We are in a weird wishy ashy half arsed lockdown where people arent listening and they arent social distancing. So we are risking the economy AND spreading the virus at the moment. Yes, I agree.

I agree. Social distancing and quarantine for those with symptoms, but not police state lock down. People need to be able to take a walk outside, they will not pass it on if they stay apart from others during their walk.
Yanbu

If we had had a South Korea type strategy from the beginning and the testing and tech resources to do it maybe that could have worked, I am not sure what other differences could have come into play but it seems it would have been much better. It's far too late now to just do those things, we should do more testing and tracking but we need to lockdown too. We must have so many cases already infected that the surge that is going to hit the nhs is baked in now, and we need to lockdown so that hopefully in a month or so we can lessen that surge, and then a month or so after that most of those in hospital may have recovered or unfortunately died so thst capacity will be returning.

I see what you’re saying now Mimi and totally agree that a stronger lockdown is necessary. Thank you for explaining.

The UK has past the point of just testing and isolating, they've left it too late. Now they need to test, trace and impose extreme social disancing. The only way to do that is by imposing confinement.
Spain recorded 394 deaths in the last 24 hours. We (I live in Spain) left it too late now. Our only hope not to crash the Spanish health service is to do what we are doing (lockdown) and test and trace much more (Spain hasn't done enough of this). Even in lockdown the cases continue to rise for some time, our lockdown has just been extended a further 2 weeks.

You're right op, we missed that moment quite some weeks ago but we are now in the panic stage. It's going to take most people about 3-4 weeks to realise this. Just chill, they'll get there in the end.

Young fit healthy people will be collateral damage of the virus if we don’t suppress it (only way to suppress it is lockdown). The hospitals can not withstand the surge otherwise. Get into an accident, get injured, contract a different illness and you will die because there will be no ambulance or healthcare available. Coronavirus will not just kill the elderly and ill, not that they are an acceptable price to pay anyway! Millions more will die because of the absolute and total collapse of the health system. Why don’t people understand this?

'All the crudest weapons of despotism, the curfew, the presumption of guilt and the power of arbitrary arrest, are taking shape in the midst of what used to be a free country. And we, who like to boast of how calm we are in a crisis, seem to despise our ancient hard-bought freedom and actually want to rush into the warm, firm arms of Big Brother.
Imagine, police officers forcing you to be screened for a disease, and locking you up for 48 hours if you object. Is this China or Britain? Think how this power could be used against, literally, anybody.
The Bill also gives Ministers the authority to ban mass gatherings. It will enable police and public health workers to place restrictions on a person’s ‘movements and travel’, ‘activities’ and ‘contact with others’.
Many court cases will now take place via video-link, and if a coroner suspects someone has died of coronavirus there will be no inquest. They say this is temporary. They always do'

I think Hitchens has a point but what can we do?
people in power are people who like power, in an emergency situation the impulse of the power hungry person is to make a grab for more power and of course they have plausible deniability in spades.
We are all caught between the devil and the deep blue sea

There's also no point talking about how well x y z country contained it. Those measures are unsustainable, economies and food chains will collapse. At some point we as a collective are going to accept the inevitable. People are slow though.