Is Johnson "Winging" it?

[jasjas1973]

He made great play on the experts and the modeling, his statements on handshaking, the take it on the chin comment and joked that getting more ventilators could be called "Operation Last Gasp" shame it won't be his as PM.

Even now we get comments like it will sweep through the country and we'll emerge on the other side....yeah how many ?

He seems to have been asleep on the job as CV swept from China to Europe, not ordering more equipment, training and testing... until its too late.

Belatedly, he is now realising the urgency of the situation but when the UK needed a leader, we ended up with a clown, with no plan, just reacting to pressure and what others are doing....in other words panic.

However, deep down we all knew this about him, shamefully still voted him in.

Having said that, I think Obama would have handled it almost perfectly actually. He would have been amazing.

I'm not sure about that - Obama was praised (and criticised by Donald Trump) for not wanting to impose travel restrictions with Ebola in 2014 - whilst Trump was heavily criticised in Jan/early Feb this year when he wanted to ban flights from China.

foreignpolicy.com/2020/02/23/virus-travel-bans-are-inevitable-but-ineffective/

"WASHINGTON—When an outbreak of the Ebola virus touched the United States’ shores in mid-2014, Donald J. Trump was still a private citizen. But he had strong opinions about how America should act."

"Mr. Trump, who has spoken openly about his phobia of germs, closely followed the epidemic, and offered angry commentary about what he said was the Obama administration’s dangerous response. He demanded draconian measures like canceling flights, forcing quarantines and even denying the return of American medical workers who had contracted the disease in Africa."

“Ebola patient will be brought to the U.S. in a few days—now I know for sure that our leaders are incompetent. KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE!” Mr. Trump tweeted on that July 31 after learning that one American medical worker would be evacuated to Atlanta from Liberia. “The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA infected people back,” Mr. Trump wrote the next day, adding: “People that go to far away places to help out are great — but must suffer the consequences!”

www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-epidemic.html

Can we stop with party politics for now? It wa bad enough listening to Corbyn bleating about what BJ SHOULD BE DOING when BJ had already said, a few times, on natinal telly, that HE ALREADY WAS DOING it!

Point scoring now is fucking awful! Yes, remind, push, bother, but support! Join in! Be positive, offer help! These are unprecedented times and they really do call for us all to set aside party politics for a while!

Give it a onth or so, see what is /is not hapening and THEN start havign a pop. But at the moment it wouldn't make much difference who was in, the same experts would be giving the same advice and the same issues would be need to be addressed...

BJ may not be great, but I can't see Corbyn be any better at all!

I dislike him intensely but he's in a situation that is an unknown. I think he's doing a pretty similar job to anyone else in the circumstances.

BJ is not doing what is required, he isn't doing what other world leaders have done, to put it bluntly, his dithering is making matters far worse.

It is not political point scoring to be critical of BJ, just a few days ago told "schools don't need to close as it would make little difference" now schools are closing..... because it will make a huge difference.

Jokes about Ventilators, jeez we need leadership not "Live at the Apollo"

He isn't up to the job and neither is his team around him, he ignored world medical opinion, went for a herd immunity approach... now reality has hit home and he is doing an about turn... weeks too late.

We can only gather around and support a leader and plan we have faith in, polling shows only 32% believe what BJ says.

@jasjas1973 I think you’ve misunderstood what Boris meant. The decision to not close schools was to push back the impact of the situation to enable NHS to cope as best as they can. By keeping people in schools and work, people would be more likely to follow hygiene procedures in those environments. He said closing schools wouldn’t make much difference because it’s such a horrific pandemic it’s inevitable most of us will get it. The kids were kept together in schools to keep them away from the majority of the public. Kids tend to touch everything, cough, sneeze, wipe noses on hands and sleeves etc.
Now he’s closing schools as we are at the point where the govt have had more time to work towards trying to cope. The NHS are gathering themselves together as much as possible. Surgeries cancelled outpatients appts, so the focus is on the seriously ill. It’s a really well thought out plan. The majority ie other countries are not always right.

He isn't up to the job and neither is his team around him, he ignored world medical opinion, went for a herd immunity approach... now reality has hit home and he is doing an about turn... weeks too late. Except this isn'ty a U-turn, it's the progression they talked about, happening at a time when the changing situation requires it.

After SI details on Monday people started changing what they did and now the time is right to close schools... without putting grandparents at risk! Having seen a numbe rof grandparens with small children in tow this morning it was really apparent that, without the progesssion ethre would have been many more of them! as anxious parents trying to stay at work used older, more vulnerable grandarents to babysit!

It's as viable a plan as anything else... and those opinion polls would probably say the same of any leader!

He seems to have been asleep on the job as CV swept from China to Europe, not ordering more equipment, training and testing... until its too late

NO-ONE, repeat, NO-ONE, in Europe anticipated the speed and spread of this virus. Not any one country, not the EU. No country was ordering more equipment, training or testing. In the early days, Europe was sending supplies to China, hence they all pretty recently banned exports of the same. UK (Boris), Scientists, have actually implemented current plans a couple of weeks earlier than other countries in the EU. We, because of our position, were always behind the curve, and to that end, are still ahead of the game, even if it doesn't feel like it. We have pretty much followed the same path as Germany and Belgium and Netherlands, are you putting them in the same group?

You have to follow the science, and other than a few naysayers, most scientists and doctors think we (Boris) have done the right things at the right times.

BJ is not doing what is required, he isn't doing what other world leaders have done, to put it bluntly, his dithering is making matters far worse

jasjas1973 You are wrong. You can (and do) hate BJ, that's fine, but follow the science, not the man.

"If Jeremy Corbyn had been in No. 10 now, the same experts would be giving him exactly the same advice."
A reasonable intelligent person with maths GCSE could of figured that that advice was evidently wrong based on the Chinese data and reports.
However when you have a government who are ignorant and racist as this one, the idea that an ex-colony would actually be competent is impossible to conceive. Hence they decide that COVID-19 was flu and decided on a strategy of infecting the whole Herd. That was catastrophically wrong.

Here is a full explanation from the editor of the Lancet

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong

I'm no Boris fan, but he has some of the best experts in the world advising him. Nobody could do any better than following their advice.

The major problem I have with Johnson's handling of this is:

Not acting as quickly with checks at borders or flight restrictions as others.

Taking a strategy of herd immunity as a good idea without looking at ICU capacity first, which anyone with any knowledge first hand of the NHS realised was ludicrous

Not asking enough questions about why Who's recommendations were so different and why the UK policy was better

Not thinking about ventilators significantly earlier when it became apparent there was a high risk of a problem. Also PPE.

Constant briefing of favoured lobby journalists rather than proper government announcements. This has fueled confusion.

Not having answers to significant questions that other governments are managing to answer much better (re sick pay in particular)

Not testing enough and not giving tests to health workers to help keep them in work.

It's a question of competence and tbh Johnson is performing worse than other leaders, when we've had slightly more time to prepare than other countries.

The criticism isn't just coming from opposition. It's also coming from tory loyalists.

The daily press conferences are a direct result of a general feeling of poor communication, accountability and leadership and we're forced by political and journalistic pressure rather than a proactively started by the PM without prompting.

Johnson's seeming unwillingness to work weekends has caught up with him somewhat this week too.

We, because of our position, were always behind the curve, I keep trying to find a clear way to explain our "End of Europe" position, maybe I should use the Roman Empire as an example. We are the end of the line, an island, we have different choices and a different timeline.

And yes, our model does have counterparts across the world! We just hear more about Italy and France because, deep breath, they are the loud, scary ones!

He is winging it. We all are. There are no adults. We can all only do our best.

"If Jeremy Corbyn had been in No. 10 now, the same experts would be giving him exactly the same advice."

A reasonable intelligent person with maths GCSE

Well, as far as I am aware, that rules out Jeremy Corbyn so what is your point?

Political point scoring is soooo last week...along with elbow bumps.

It's time to put political differences to one side and work together.

I didn’t vote for him but he is in an impossibly difficult position, unimaginable to have to deal with a pandemic and the social, emotional and financial ramifications of that.

However when you have a government who are ignorant and racist as this one, the idea that an ex-colony would actually be competent is impossible to conceive.

Which "ex-colony"?

China? It has never been a colony.

Italy? It has never been a colony either.

It's time to put political differences to one side and work together. Yup! Though I got my arse handed to me for typing that yesterday!

"Political point scoring is soooo last week"
The UK's governments handling of this will be exposed in stark numbers of dead. The experts all over the world have very loudly warned that what the UK is doing is negligent and utterly wrong.
Hiding behind experts won't cover it, the buck will stop with the government and they went completely out of sync with the rest of the world.

Well at least you now know you are not alone, Curious! I've seen a few of your post in the last few days and they make perfect sense to me.

Isn't everyone "winging it"? It is a completely unprecedented situation. I think he is doing the best that he can, as is everybody.

"Which "ex-colony"?

China? It has never been a colony"
Hong Kong, the rest of China was part of the 'Informal Empire'

I agree, check where the UK is in this graph

Hong Kong, the rest of China was part of the 'Informal Empire'

The link you provided doesn't even mention Hong Kong.^^

The experts all over the world have very loudly warned that what the UK is doing is negligent and utterly wrong. THE experts? SOME experts!

Others, lookinbg at the UK specifically think we are doing A right thing, which, without a crystal ball or TARDIS, is the best we can do. THE best thing is unknowable!

And every countries rpesonse will be measured "in stark numbes of the dead" Look at the figures published - all numbers will be inaccurate for a wide variety of reasons, but UK deaths are not skyrocketing in comparison to any other country!

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Live that chart

And yet Johnson stresses ‘advice’ and everyone buggers on doing what they want. It’s going to be worse than Iran the way we’re going.