Just spoke to a friend in Italy...

[letsjog]

And I'm really concerned that people are saying England will follow suit.

I know a lot of people already know but it's hard to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.

She's not allowed to leave her house and must have a permit to go shopping/walk the dog etc. They are not allowed to socialise with anyone outside her only company is her neighbour in her apartment block. She can't even visit her elderly parents in the next province over at a risk of 3 months in jail if she attempts to.
The doctors are having to basically make decisions who lives and who dies due to lack of hospital beds and supplies and are mainly prioritising the young, leaving the elderly unaided. She's saying it's like a war without the weapons.

People in England are saying this will blow over but when and at what cost?
I still hear people spouting percentages how the healthy/young/fit are most likely to be fine and they're just going about their day and even trying to book holidays.

Can someone realistically give me a best case/worst case scenario we are facing here?

DP is trying to convince me to keep the DCs off school even though our schools are open and trying to say we shouldn't see our parents for now too.

Save the child. I would have thought that it was blindingly obvious.

Ok but what about save the child or save the 45 year old single parent with teenagers/ young children ?

Or save the child or save the fit 50 year old ITU doctor with no underlying conditions who also has young teenagers

These decisions are not always simple

You get a fine, not prison.
Prison sentences in Portugal and Italy for infecting people.

I am making plans to take my kids out of school from Friday if the government don’t act by then. I have already told my parents to self isolate to protect themselves. We are in for a bumpy ride over the next few months, I just hope all my loved ones make it. If Boris isn’t protecting us we need to protect ourselves, I don’t want to be a pawn in his ‘herd immunity’ game

@magicrainbowbeans do you have to get a special permit from the authorities to go and buy food? Can you not online shop if you can't get to the shop yourself? Would you not be allowed to go and visit sick/elderly relatives who might be needing help?
Are you not allowed to see friends/ask friends to visit?

Sorry but I think your points are rather odd.

@justilou1 I don't know what you mean?

I’m much more nervous now than I have been. We live very near to my parents and I’ve put off seeing them with the kids now. Father had cancer last year now clear but I’m concerned we could give them something. I also work in a school (thank god I have my own office) but I’m due to assist at a training event next week with 40+ teachers. I’m hoping we end up cancelling but it hasn’t happened yet.

it's awful awful but how do the staff decide save the child or save the pensioner

But aren’t non compromised children ok?
This disease isn’t such a problem with those under 18

What I am struggling to get my mind round is the lack of testing.

If we want 60% of people to get it for “herd immunity” how will we know 60% of the population have caught it if we only test those that end up in hospital.

Worst case scenario around 3 million deaths.
That's 80% of the population, with a swamped NHS and a 5.8% fatality rate.
This is scaremongering. The facts are

Irial 'So you dont go out, you dont go shopping or socialise? You know that's not compulsory for lone parents. There's always 1'

You're mean.

@ivykaty44that piece was written by someone with no relevant experience and seems to be being shared everywhere

mobile.twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1238872779648315393

The poster in lock down in Spain. Are you allowed out to go to work?
I’m a nanny , I think the family I work for will expect me there whatever.
And no I wouldn’t live in I have my own family to care for too.

Oh good, another random stranger who has a friend who says things are really bad. My favourite type of source for reliable information.

My doctor friend said that in China they started choosing who to treat based solely on lung xrays. If someone looked from their xray/mri (can’t remember which she said) they’d treat them and if they looked beyond salvation they didn’t. That seems fair as it doesn’t involve age based decisions and just whoever seems to have the best chance of recovery.

*The facts are

Alice, that

Spain only began lockdown yesterday in most areas so legislation is probably ongoing.
In Italy you have a paper to carry and have to say where, and why you are out.

I am British but I no longer live there and as far as I can see England is the only country with this attitude. Everywhere else people are taking this very seriously.

The lack of action is more to do with the fact that the government has decided that there's nothing we can do about it and that many of us are going to die rather then we are not taking it seriously. I suspect much of the population is far more scared than countries in Europe which seemed to feel that they can contain it.

My family are in Italy; I'm whatsapping and talking all the time.

Atm the choices between "old and young" are really between people who are on their last legs anyway and others. At any time there are thousands, nay, hundreds of thousands, of people who are very ill and very elderly - with dementia and a host of other conditions. Obviously these have to necessarily come behind fitter people when it comes to getting a ventilator.

Apparently there is plenty of food in the shops. You have a card which means only one family member can go shopping at a time. No family groups as favoured by some on MN! You can get a special dispensation for going out to visit relatives in need or for your own (urgent) hospital appointments and to go to work.

There are elderly people who are - or who at least were - defying the ban. Doctors had to issue draconian orders not to turn up with incredibly minor issues and not to congregate.

One week in and staying home is really boring, like a permanent state of Sundays in the 70s in England, if anyone can remember them!

Of course you’re not allowed to invite friends round or go visit them if you’re in isolation!!

If it came to lockdown you wouldn’t be able to be a live out nanny. The family would have to look after their own kids while they’re locked down with them. It’s just likely we’ll all lose some money in not working (my company has already mentioned job losses due to Coronavirus. Since America stopped flights we’ve lost 75% of our work already..)

letsjog, there are many examples I can give of difficulties people will face now, that lone parents face regularly. Where you run out of bread or milk but your child is sleeping, where you or child are ill and you need food or medicine. Where you don't want to buy a whole online order with a charge to get hold of bread or milk that's not a practical answer. Ongoing, where you are on your own with no companion or conversation, where you can never go anywhere by yourself, where once children are in bed you are confined to the house, can't even take a brisk walk ever. And it's hard to support others even where you want to volunteer or offer care, if you need childcare to do that in the first instance yourself. If you don't drive you are confined to a small geography and can't take lessons without childcare. And so on. It's isolating and often has a long term impact on mental health.

@millymaud It is highly unlikely that we would know that it causes infertility at this stage. I know viruses like chicken pox can cause temporary infertility until you return to full fitness so scientists may think there is a chance of corona virus having the same effect. Although to be honest, colds and flu bugs can temporarily effect fertility.

I have a friend - you can believe me or not - your choice AngelicaJauffman who is a Paramedic here in Ireland she has told me that the decisions they are told they will have to make are desperate.

People need to wake the fuck up - keep your children away from old people please.

Hi @BirdandSparrow how do you prove you're doing one of the agreed things to leave the house? Thinking about if I go to visit my mum to check on her, how do you prove that's what you're doing?

I'm currently in Spain and am not seeing people self isolating in the way that's been recommended. However I'm not in one of the hugely affected areas.

People still going in groups to the shops, families still walking about with their kids, neighbours still out chatting in the gardens etc...

Certainly quieter with everything closed but definitely not as dramatic (in this area anyway) as it sounds. Yet.

It's scary though, I'm trying to get home (at my holiday home, been here a while) but not sure what's going on right now so may have to stay put.

What happens to people with dogs in Italy . Are they Allowed to walk then.

Also heard on Sky news this morning that our governments (UK) policy is definitely not herd immunity.