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Does anyone think Boris is right?

477 replies

Emcont · 15/03/2020 08:37

I'm not saying I do. But I'm curious to see if anyone agrees with the strategy they're going for as most of what I'm reading is against.

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alloutoffucks · 15/03/2020 12:39

@YgritteSnow Experts that no other government or WHO agree with.

I work in a scientific company. You can always find a few idiot "experts" to agree with whatever you want. But the scientific community peer review theories i.e. point out the flaws in theories. So generally what most scientists think does tend to be the accurate view. Most scientists are horrified at the UK government;s approach and are saying it is based in untested and unproven theories.

You may be happy to let half a million people die based on untested and unproven theories that most experts are questioning. I certainly am nor.

FailingMeansYouArePlaying · 15/03/2020 12:39

It's not about politics for me. And the people who think it is are showing complete lack of regards for people with differing opinions to their own. My response is no.

I think they are making a big mistake and we'll pay dearly for it in the form of our elderly and vulnerable. It's a hell of a gamble to take and if they have got this wrong... it doesn't even bear to think about.

MacronsPensWiper · 15/03/2020 12:39

I'm very happy to support my country.

I can do that by keeping myself and my dh and my dc as well as can be.

I can do that by pulling us out of general society and limit our interaction. The government won't let me!!
The government is forcing us to mix in close quarters on sites with 2000 people... So the gov can fuck off

Ameliabrowner · 15/03/2020 12:41

@Alwaysreadyforbed
You nailed it!
On mumsnet, it’s very left so anything Boris does will be wrong. Even to the point where they’ve said they are killing off the elderly but when they are apparently bringing in measures to protect them, like self isolation, it’s still wrong.

I realised I shouldn’t be on here as I’m defo right wing

alloutoffucks · 15/03/2020 12:42

@TonTonMacoute Don't patronise us. Pathological hatred?

I just understand scientific theories, can read and understand scientific papers, and can read what other scientists say. I can also see what other governments are doing.
And no the UK government approach is a massive gamble based on dodgy science.

You remember Andrew Wakefield and his autism caused by vaccines? He was getting trotted out as an expert too. He was wrong.

The vast majority of scientists do NOT agree with the UK government approach.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 15/03/2020 12:42

Brexit: We're sick of experts
Covid19: listen to the experts

Brexit: we need to leave EU to control our borders
Covid19: continue to leave borders open whilst EU members close theirs.

But why be sceptical about the inconsistencies of right wing populist politicians during a time of national crisis? Hmm

MacronsPensWiper · 15/03/2020 12:43

Anything would put pressure on NHS right now... Any additional illness.

It's disgusting that only now these people are asking for ventilators to be made! They should have been doing this week ago!

MacronsPensWiper · 15/03/2020 12:44

Because ghost, its a very different set of circumstances? Comparing eggs with shooting stars?

IStressheadI · 15/03/2020 12:45

No.
I find it hard to believe that every other country has the wrong approach except us.

alloutoffucks · 15/03/2020 12:45

@Ameliabrowner I have voted conservative before. I am a classic floating voter.
Simply accepting that half a million people will die because it is too hard to do what scientists are recommending, is killing off the elderly.

Sometimes truths are unpalatable

GhostofFrankGrimes · 15/03/2020 12:45

Yep health sec virtually begging for ventilators. Austerity coming back to bite Tories on the arse.

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/03/2020 12:45

Yes.
I think the U.K. COBRA plan is a good one. We have lockdown here in France and that approach did not help Italy, it worsened things imho. If any government is dithering with no plan, it is France. We’ve changed our minds from a delay strategy to now trying to contain it. This virus is too entrenched to contain. The lockdown is making it harder for medical supplies and services to be delivered to the sick.
The response should be tailored to each country’s situation. There is no one size fits all solution to this.

Pippitypong · 15/03/2020 12:47

I dont think it's as easy to say hes choosing the economy over peoples lives. The 2 are closely linked. Look how many people have died during austerity measures , and the rising reliance on food banks by people who are in work (and food bank supplies are running out due to stockpiling!!)

I didnt vote for BJ but there isn't any choice he can make against this that's not going to have severe consequences.
Even "just" cancelling sporting events which seems like a very minimal thing to do will potentially cost the jobs of people who work in bars, cafes, events (a lot of whom will be on NMW or zero hours contracts) next close schools....what about kids on FSM....whose parents are on NMW jobs who have to stay at home to look after them....? Or HCP - do they stay home to look after kids or work through the biggest crisis the nhs has seen....? And that's before you go into full lockdown and most of the country cant work.
There are no easy or obviously right solution.
Singapore numbers contained quickly because they were quick to stop flights and quarantine people who had first been in infected areas. The genie is out of the bottle for the rest of the world.

cosytoaster · 15/03/2020 12:47

Yes (and I am left wing)

MacronsPensWiper · 15/03/2020 12:47

all

To qualify that, all countries are on the same page, they all want to spread out this peak.

However other places are taking firm action to do that. We are talking about it and not taking any action. Infact I'd argue that we are fueling this fire.

There is no direction or organisation at all.

Sunshine1239 · 15/03/2020 12:47

Other countries have more ventilators - we are in a more serious situation

We’ve also watched the elderly clog up the ventilators in al other countries and know this is the issue

They can’t stay locked down for 18 months til there a vaccine so their rates will very likely go up afterwards like in Spanish flu were the second wave killed more than the first

That second wave would hit in winter which nhs can’t afford

Sunshine1239 · 15/03/2020 12:48

He’s not accepting half million will die! That’s the number that would die to get her immunity if the vulnerable don’t isolate

That number will go right down if the vulnerable isolate - it’s really not that hard to understand 🤷‍♀️

DishingOutDone · 15/03/2020 12:49

Whilst I agree with @GhostofFrankGrimes, I do want to hear what the Chief Medical Officer etc have to say. In the broadcast last week I thought the Chief Scientific Officer came across very well. It was bugger all to do with Boris, he had no clue.

Holowiwi · 15/03/2020 12:50

Yes

This virus is here to stay and a vaccine is likely a year away. We are past containment as it has already spread across the world. How long do you think travel restrictions can be put into place realistically? China have apparently contained the spread and will now quarantine anyone coming to China for 2 weeks. Will they be able to do this for a year and actually have their economy survive? No I don't think so, in the end they will have many more waves occurring. The cat is already of the bag.

BlackForestCake · 15/03/2020 12:50

The idea that the Tories are happy for thousands to die is silly.

I think the Tories would be happy for millions to die as long as their rich pals could keep making money. They are sociopaths. They have always been like this. Why would they change now?

alloutoffucks · 15/03/2020 12:52

@Sunshine1239 The Government has repeatedly said that to get herd immunity (bogus unproven scientific theory), that 60% of the population have to get it and that 1% will die. That is half a million people. I am not making this up. The government has said this again and again.

And I consistently use the governments figures even though some people think they are too low and the numbers will be too high.

Boris has also said this is inevitable. Because apparently it is too hard to do what every other government is trying to do to stop people getting it and to save lives. No one else is trying to make sure 60% of their population get the virus. NO ONE.

Sunshine1239 · 15/03/2020 12:53

Yes 60% will have to get it but the 1% death rate will happen to the vulnerable so let’s let 60% of the healthy people get it

That’s what they’ve said and are planning

Tanith · 15/03/2020 12:54

"The trouble is that this is so much bigger than anything we have experienced in most of our lifetimes"

As a matter of fact, it's not. Swine flu was also a pandemic.

For those of you who like pictoral representations, this graph puts it into perspective. By far the biggest killer in modern times is AIDS/HIV.

www.visualcapitalist.com/history-of-pandemics-deadliest/

NotMyFinestMoment · 15/03/2020 12:54

No. The health secretary has been on Sky stating that we do not have enough ventilators and we need SEVERAL TIMES the amount that we currently have. He has said that Boris is in talks with manufacturers who have the capability to switch their lines over to producing ventilators to ask them to do so (this should have been done weeks ago). He has said that at some point the elderly/vulnerable will be asked to self isolate for months and probably within a matter of weeks (he should be doing that now while they still stand a chance of avoiding it).

Now due to moving to the next phase of the plan to manage coronavirus, the government has decided that general testing within the community for Covid-19 is no longer necessary (unless in a hospital setting) and are telling people with symptoms of a new persistent cough or a high temperature to stay home; do not go to your GP, do not go to hospital and do not call NHS Direct. Essentially if you have Cov-19, deal with it yourself and before you are better (and while you are still potentially spreading it) you can come out of isolation after 7 days and can continue spreading it. If you become very ill then you can contact someone (by then it will probably be too late as we don't actually have many intensive care bed/ventilators and the ones that we have are already in use). We already know that in some cases it can be up to 2 weeks for a person to show symptoms and in a small amount of cases it is occasionally more than 14 days so asking people to stay home for just 7 days after showing symptoms makes no sense at all. It is better to allow all people to get tested so that they can take the necessary steps to protect themselves and the people around them. At the moment, hospital staff, care workers, school teachers and all kinds of other people are going in to work when they should be home, but they don't know if they have a simple cold or possibly something more serious and as the days and weeks pass without something being done to slow the spread (quarantine measures and school closures), our chances of contracting it and passing it lots of other people including very vulnerable patient groups which includes the ones who have been asked to stay home for months on end and need others to help them manage their self isolation.

All the while the Government is testing it's 'theory' on 'herd immunity' and intends to deliberately allow a large percentage of the population to contract the virus to see if they develop 'herd immunity' which may be helpful in future outbreaks (even though this is a new virus which we know nothing about and herd immunity is not a guaranteed outcome). There are supposed to be two strains in existence, so even if you catch one and recover from it, will you become immune to further outbreaks of it. There is already some suggestion that some people are testing positive after originally receiving a negative result. Does this mean they were still carriers and had not completely recovered, could it mean the tests were faulty, did they become reinfected, perhaps they were infected with the other strain which is also circulating. No one presently know the answers to these questions.

The Government is acting like a lone wolf and completely doing its own thing and flying in the face of what the rest of the world is doing to slow the transmission and contain it, and what the WHO is advising which is to test, isolate, trace and contain, etc. They are going to make things much much worse for the UK population based on their current 'strategy'.

michellejj · 15/03/2020 12:54

Yes, it makes sense to me.