Does anyone think Boris is right?

[Emcont]

I'm not saying I do. But I'm curious to see if anyone agrees with the strategy they're going for as most of what I'm reading is against.

The virus is no longer contained and you cannot re-contain a virus that has broken through containment
What on Earth are you on about?
China went from 0 to 60,000 cases.
Now it’s back down to 12,000.
Our government simply can’t be fucked. It doesn’t want to hurt the economy. It doesn’t want to deal with the fallout of two,three, four months closures. There really is no other explanation.

@Lweji - thanks for trying so hard!

I want to scream at some of the PP saying 'we do not have enough cases yet', or that other EU countries are 'sticking their heads in the sand', or that 'hiding away will just prolong things'!

First, the number of affected people in the UK is a) hugely underestimated (some say that by 10x or more) and b) increasing exponentially. Tomorrow we should have ~2000 confirmed cases.

If we keep waiting, we will not cope. Just as other EU countries...
I am in touch with people in Spain and Italy, nurses and doctors, and it is bloody scary!

Mortality seems to be around 2%, but what we do not know precisely is what % of the affected will need ICU. If you think that could be 5% - what is going to happen when we are all still walking getting 'herd immunity'? I live in a city of 300.000 habitants, if only 10% get ill, and 5% of those need ICU - that is already 500 beds in a short period of time!! How are hospitals going to cope?!

Marsha it's obvious what he's doing.

France had to switch of the tap now. They are further on.

Germany are also taking measures now to slow it down a bit.

I don't understand what it's not clear that the UK are basically doing the same.

To app it yes!

Relative moaning he's not doing enough... relative now been in contact with corona virus. Same relative won't isolate.

So he's right idiots won't do what there told

@Marsha
China took it down from 60,000 active cases to 12,000 active cases.
Many provinces (the size of European counties) are now all clear.
I know you are annoyed by my raising China and you’re annoyed because it shows it is possible to save tens possibly hundreds of thousands of lives .... with the political will to do it.

So much for people complaining about a nanny state.

It looks like that's exactly what's needed. We've had to sit our parents down and explain that they must self isolate. They're both in at risk categories and we're prepared to carry on as normal.

The levels of selfishness are astounding.

Political will
that's a nice friendly sounding phrase isn't it Cam77
how nicely it glosses over the fact that we are talking about an authoritarian dictatorship with massive human rights abuses and no transparency

Of course when you start from a starting mentality of
“let’s hope for the best”
Followed by
“we can’t deal with this”
You’re not even setting up the right conditions to make a fight of it. So I agree it’s a lost cause because the government is good at spending years spouting Brexit Platitudes but useless at actual governing in a crisis.

China is not the solution to this problem
China is the cause of this problem

In summary

@UYScuti: we are discussing responses to the virus - nothing else.
Telling adults to sit at home and watch TV, and children to take their classes online for two months so that millions of their countrymen can be spared a horrible early death isn’t widely viewed as an abuse of human rights over there. Cultural difference perhaps.

@UYScuti
“China isn’t the solution...”
Meaningless and irrelevant.

Exactly!!

Cam no it doesn’t annoy me but it’s just hindsight.

None of the Western countries did it so when people say look at lockdowns in Italy! In Ireland! Etc we are not doing it. Why?
Mass events, schools etc
It’s because our approach is just as good and based on timing.

I don’t see the point in looking to countries who are in the same boat as us.

Nor ones who had an obvious head start after SARS.

Not ones with vastly different political regimes.

But my question is why are you looking at what Europe is doing and saying we need to do that? Do you think less than 60% will get it?

Saw this yesterday

how nicely it glosses over the fact that we are talking about an authoritarian dictatorship with massive human rights abuses and no transparency

Interesting how that authoritarian dictatorship with massive human rights abuses was prepared to do whatever it took to safeguard the lives of its citizens, even to the extent of completely shutting down its economy and taking a huge financial hit.

Whereas in the benevolent UK, we will have conservatively half a million people die because of the government's inaction

Marsha did China really learn from SARS? Maybe if they had we wouldn't have the prospect of our loved ones dying.

China has a lot of blood on its hand. Not the Chinese people, but the Chinese government.

alloutoffucks - they've introduced those measures in the last few days having reached a worse situation than the UK (cases/population). As I said I think that's where we're heading (and hopefully getting the timing right). I'm not entirely sure what tracing contacts is going to do at this stage with the the likely numbers involved - much better to channel resources into treatment.

It's no different than introducing a curfew and blackout during WW2.

It will probably come the time for proper quarantine, and it will be much worse then. I really hope it won't, but from my perspective is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Fantasy Government reply :

Based on our mathematic models, linked below, I would estimate that we can begin releasing the second wave of workers at the beginning of summer, with further waves on a monthly basis. Full release is likely to be prior to the development of a vaccine and hopefully by the end of the year.

However, we understand that it would be unfeasible to keep everyone isolated for this amount of time, so we will be asking businesses to work on a lower amount of staff and looking at rotating which staff they use on a bimonthly basis.

These measures will mean that we will maintain social distancing, whilst maintaining our economic interests as far as possible.

Random I was thinking of Taiwan and others. I agree China should have learnt from the first time.

China has a lot of blood on its hand. Not the Chinese people, but the Chinese government.
Yes, but that's an issue to another thread.
Although there are rumours that the current control is not as good as advertised. I hope that's not true.

And yes to the rest of your post. I feel the same.

Yes they have contained the virus for now but guess what there will be multiple waves of infections and its likely that the second wave will be more severe and occur during a time when there will be more strain on health services (as it will happen during winter)

I think the medical and scientific advice he is following is right.

To be honest whatever decision that is seen to be his is wrong - he can't win but you could see in his face at that presentation he knows that, he also knows alot of people are going to die on his watch and it will be how he will be remembered. I think this decision making is about maintaining society not the economy.

I think we are fucked anywhich way and we just need a route to follow - more sructure needs to be in place - rationing if need be, and army out to supermarkets, hospitals and emergency areas to help with mob control. Army should also be suprvising isolation and breaches - you should have to register and that is when you are given a pin for online shopping etc (or if needed through disability etc) and all the other selfish fuckwits should have to go to store singly to shop and items be rationed