I've lost all confidence in our leaders. **Title edited by MNHQ**

[Ofthread]

I'm freaking out. Why isn't our country doing more? I've lost all confidence in their abilities to lead. Did anyone see the government advisor guy with the dead eyes on the Channel 4 special this evening? He explained quite calmly that the measures would be enough and that they would 'flatten the curve'. Another guy was practically jumping up and down screaming 'You have to do something NOW, these measures won't flatten the curve'.

Ray - you wont get people to stop being scared by telling them not to be. It's a normal response when feeling threatened. And it is scary seeing what happening in Italy.

The only things we can all start doing immediately to help ourselves is for everyone to improve self discipline around their personal hygiene and to actively avoid crowds of people.

That's what the countries who have flattened the curve have done and the subsequent data speaks for itself.

Yes, of course - 7.2% of KNOWN cases.

Ofthread. Well that’s somewhat different to your opening post isn’t it? Which you entitled,

Oh god, 7.2% death rate in Italy. which implies that there is a 7.2% death rate in Italy. The whole of Italy, not known CV cases. It’s people like you who cause widespread panic.

I am sure everyone knows it is a percentage of known cases. I realised that. It is a high mortality rate.

It's horrifying that Boris etc. aren't doing more. Why did he word it as 'more families will lose loved ones' and not 'many of you will die... and that's a course of action I'm willing to take'.

@alloutoffucks - bollocks, it’s a deliberately misleading title designed to draw people in. But well done you for knowing differently.

@AlexaAmbidextra - yup, am getting fed up of these types of gross posts. Part of me wants to just hide every damn topic, but another wants to utilise my insomnia to call out crap like this. Yes, we are ALL concerned about every aspect of this situation, but this kind of shit is just beyond belief.

PS - I like seeing how much I can get away with swearing!

No need to be nasty? Why name call?
Yes I did understand what was meant. But is that a reason to call me names?

@alloutoffucks - eh? Where have I called you “names”?

@Isla727 I imagine it's a tactic to try and get people to start taking it seriously. The loved ones comments immediately makes you respond with fear at the thought of losing your own loved ones, which then hopefully means more people do as they are told and follow orders. That's my guess anyway

Surely @mumsnet have a responsibility for what is posted here regarding this topic? The level of scaremongering without facts is absolutely abhorrent

I wonder if MNHQ can be persuaded to limit the posts newly joined posters make on the topic.

The scaremongering is getting out of hand. Reminds me of the general election and the Brexit threads.,

Fucking appalling the scaremongering on here lately.

Italy has a specific set of factors that have affected the number of cases and deaths, that we in the UK do not have.

1. They have one of the highest proportion of elderly people in Europe
2. Most of whom live in a family unit or at the very least close by to their families, and who see them most days. Not that many go into care homes, where they’d be better isolated
3. Many of whom provide some sort of childcare (a lot of schools in Italy close at lunchtime; my MIL looked after my nieces after school

Additional factors:

1. Italy has a higher proportion of smokers compared to U.K. (China also has high rate and it’s been thought could be a risk)
2. Until Conte came out with the decree, many hadn’t taken it seriously and weren’t staying home. When the north went lockdown, many tourists simply hopped on a train out of Dodge, bringing virus with them. Italian tv stars are having to take part in a huge campaign to convince people to stay in (in a culture where, particularly in the south, people like to go out a lot.

Oh and I forgot one other factor - the social kissing that Italians do.

Put together, there’s no wonder their rates are higher, but this set of circumstances are pretty unique (though many are similar to China eg family living etc).

I’ve already warned my Italian husband to ensure that his parents are not continuing to provide childcare, but I know there’s no way that they’d choose to isolate themselves from seeing their family, even if all evidence points towards it.

Yes to southern Italian families living with or near families. Bisnonna lives with her son and sees at least a couple of other family members each day. Three generations in one house are not unusual. Often they have different levels in the same building. The evenings usually consist of a wander around the piazza, drink in the cafe, lots of family meals. Kisses are the usual greeting, always kisses and cheek tugging for children. It's the perfect storm.

It’s people like you who cause widespread panic.

I agree - the hysteria on this board is getting ridiculous. It’s become an echo chamber for people determined to see this as some sort of Armageddon situation. It’s selfish, irresponsible and very unhelpful to those who have genuine cause for concern.

@Ofthread Hideous scaremongering and a horrible thread title. Some people are genuinely worried about coronavirus. This kind of ridiculous hysteria is not helping anyone.

Boris is telling us that 60% of us need to catch it to give herd immunity|

Do we even know if you can get immunity by having it? I'm sure some of the people in China had tested positive for a second time after being clear.

Look, stop, just stop

Why are you assuming a worst case scenario for the U.K.? Other countries do not have a death rate like Italy's including China.

You are being very selfish and irresponsible starting a thread like this. Some people have severe anxiety

This is irresponsible scaremongering and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Yes, of course - 7.2% of KNOWN cases. I don't know why people have to keep shouting that

Because your scaremongering figure is not accurate as this is not how % dead is calculated

Ffs do it right or don't do it at all

You are being absolutely ridiculous OP.

Our government is doing a very good job. It’s a measured, transparent and evidence-led response. The Italian government’s response was not.

You don’t freak out about seasonal flu, do you? But an estimate by the US-based Center for Disease Control and Prevention) suggests that flu has caused between 291,000 and 646,000 deaths globally a year. If the number of deaths from coronavirus rises a hundredfold in the next few weeks or months, it will only have reached the lower bound of the estimate for existing strains of flu.

I've had long relationships with 2 Italian men. Italians have a very different social culture to us as someone upthread has pointed out.

Yes, the social kissing. everyone does it even men with each other. Italians also treat friends like extended family, they constantly live in each other's pockets and have lots of mixed gatherings far more frequently than we do in the U.K. Italians also are not good at following the rules and most will admit that(!)

It's awful for them how things currently are but sadly I think it has to do with their style of social interaction in part.

I do think that some people thrive on dramatics and enjoy stirring others up. Just leave that to the daily mail will you? 🙄

The scaremongering is getting out of hand. Reminds me of the general election and the Brexit threads.,

It’s all the same thing in my opinion.

Historically we live in extraordinary times in terms of safety and prosperity, but we’re addicted to apocalyptic predictions of the future. And it has really ramped up in recent times: Brexit, Trump, World War 3, the Australian Bush fires, now this. Which will pass, and then we’ll move on to the next imaginary end-of/the-world scenario.

seriously though, what you need to understand is the mortality rate for any new illness will always be artificially high. This is to do with a number of things, but not least to do with how cases are identified. So in the UK up until a few days ago they were only testing if you had contact with a confirmd case or had travelled to high risk area (small numbers) or were in ITU with posible symptoms - ie the most unwell with probabale underlying illness. Obviously the death rate in this specififc group of patients will be massively increased. Current testing is now anyone is hospital with possible symptoms (not just ITU) but still only those ill enough to be hospitalised - again a high risk group mostl likely. They are specifically not testing anyone in the community with mild symptoms but are accepting at this stage a lot of people are likely to have it and are asking them to self isolate. So the figures will be massively skewed. The true mortality rate for this illness will most likely not be known for a couple of year.