To be amazed at how many people are making excuses

[Sunshinesky1981]

Looking through these threads I'm feeling pretty horrified at the amount of people that either dont seem to be able to understand what self isolate actually means or are already making excuses as to why it can't possibly apply to them ?!?
Have read so many.. oh I'm not going to self isolate, I'm pretty sure it's just a cold. Can I still go for a walk. I need to go out for a run or else I'd go crazy, how am i going to walk the dog, I'd only pop to the shop really quickly

No wonder the schools aren't shutting, and we are not banning gatherings. I really can't understand how people are either not getting this or feel happy to just think sod the risk

Oh the sweet irony of @angell84 calling other people stupid.

No problem otterturk, been there, best of luck with the sleep situation.

Sorry, this has turned all a bit horrid.

My point in my original post was not about people who are on the breadline or would face eviction, its about people who are willingly self isolating, but choosing to nip out for a bit, or to the shops/ go for a run.
Chances are these people only have a cold, but if they pass that cold on then it is forcing others to have to try to self isolate - and these people have to face the financial implications of this.

Im not living in a bubble, i realise £200 is a massive amount for a lot of people, ive been through the homeless/temp accomodation system when my marriage broke down , and it was beyond fucking soul destroying, which is why it is even more important that people who can self isolate do it properly... it will cut down on the numbers of people who have to do it because some moron has popped into waitrose as they fancied a walk and a biscuit

So otterurk proves my point about selfish LL quite perfectly.

If you want people who are forced to private rent to self isolate....force LL like them to sort this out.....if you are a LL and you don't have contingency for dealing with last rent you shouldn't fucking be one.

all this "its only 2 weeks max"

well for me, 2 weeks of isolation would be paid. Great!

DP would lose 2 weeks wages and get £94 a week or whatever it was, we'd lose a significant amount. But its only x amount i hear you say, you'll cope.

Yeah, we'd cope. It'd put us in debt, but it'd get paid off eventually. We'd deal with it.

But then say, 2 weeks later, schools close. DS nursery closes, we've already paid those fees and we wont get them back, and then we have no childcare so i am off for 2 weeks.

So weve then lost 4 weeks wages in total, and around £400 in nursery fees.

We'd survive, because we'd borrow and end up in debt.

What if, like a pp, you dont have the means to borrow?

I would absolutely self isolate if needs be, i dont want to pass this onto anyone if i get it HOWEVER its totally disingenuous to say oh well its 2 weeks of your life whats worst that can happen.

The privilege on MN is shocking.

People on carers or ESA will not just live on that amount. If there is no other household income they get other benefits.

🙄

SSP is a direct equivalent of ESA or carers allowance - it’s an income replacement benefit. Most people on SSP won’t have that as their only income either. Plenty of people who’ve had to claim carers allowance or ESA have had far longer waits than two weeks to get benefits in place, especially now UC is in place.

I thought I had savings (prob enough for 2-3 mortgage payments) it was in an isa....that invested in stocks and shares... you can imagine what that's worth now.

I think this proves why the government has taken the gentle approach it has, and why all those calling for lockdowns and school closures and the like aren’t living in reality. Self isolating is bloody difficult. It’s totally contrary to how we all live. For some people it might be possible to stock up on two weeks of food and then hunker down with a box set, but for others it’s near impossible because of financial burdens, care responsibilities, etc.

People who have Coronavirus symptoms should self isolate but if you have a cold you don’t need to risk losing your job and / or home by staying in for two weeks.

Currently self isolating and my main job are refusing to pay me and asked for a sick note which the doctors refused to give me

Serious question.....what is the likelihood, really of affecting someone when out for a run? You'd have to a) be passing very, very close to someone (which is avoided when running anyway) and b) happen to sneeze or cough at the exact time you passed them to allow for respiratory droplets to make contact

It's a bit different from going into work at an old people's home and giving them intimate care, or whatever

@Marlox

Dont you then want to make sure that others around you arent deliberately at risk but ignoring advice?

It's my hope that everyone who CAN self isolate will if necessary and with people working from home (didn't add to my original post that that also is absolutely not an option for my role) as a precaution if they can, hopefully that will slow the spread.

If you are in a position to isolate easily maybe do it before it's 'absolutely necessary' to help those of us who really do need to wait and weigh up everything. I'm certainly not going to go vigilante style and start trying to police how others deal with this. I don't know their situation and I just have to trust that they've made the decision that is best for them and their family. AND, as far as possible, for the population as a whole.

Like I said if I get a cough and I'm in any doubt I will isolate and deal with the consequences as dire as they may be but if I absolutely know, from experience, that it's a reflux induced cough (which feels different but sounds the same) then I'm damn well going to work and will happily explain myself to anyone who is worried. Same with the temperature although I probably would need to be off with a UTI that bad anyway unlike my last pregnancy.

Think the best thing would be to ask vulnerable groups to stay safe and let the well people develop mild symptons = herd immunity.Would this work
I have been wondering about this as well. Surly the vulnerable groups are more likely to follow isolation procedures as it is for their benefit (vs people now being lax as they don’t see the point or don’t care)

@Rhubarbpeony Or if you actually want people to self isolate, you set up things to support that?

Well, here's the answer to the question "how much of an outbreak is required before people start turning on each other?".

Think the best thing would be to ask vulnerable groups to stay safe and let the well people develop mild symptons = herd immunity.

I think this actually is the strategy, isn't it? As it's not always clear cut who is vulnerable and who isn't, to also slow the rate of infection so that hospitals etc are not overwhlemed.

Serious question.....what is the likelihood, really of affecting someone when out for a run

I think it's very low. But I did discover on my walk this morning how some people just don't want to be avoided and walk right at you so you would be hard pushed to stay 2m away from them.

Or if you actually want people to self isolate, you set up things to support that

I've said a few times on here now:

SSP to be compulsory
Blanket ban on dismissals for sickness/self-isolation absence
Absences during this period cannot be counted towards sickness policies

Oh, and a dog with a half decent owner will survive a few weeks without walking, without it being cruel torture.

Plenty of post-op dogs do so. Lots of things you can do with a dog to keep it entertained. Plenty of house-based activities.

I have a 3 year old, high energy, working breed and will not be walking him during any self-isolation. He will cope just fine because instead I'll be doing lots and lots of home games and training and fun.

It's a really good example of how it is far, far more difficult than folk think to get people to follow public health guidance (see continued smoking rates for a good example).

People are primarily led by self-interest (not a criticism, just human nature) and it's a hard science to get them to see past the end of their nose, especially for the greater good.

Behavioural nudging is a good (and proven) tactic if you want to actually get people to change behaviour, en masse, even if it seems lacklustre in the face of such panic.

@alloutoffucks absolutely, I totally agree - govt should be committing ££££ to some kind of a relief fund for that exact purpose

My DH has an underlying illness and takes immune suppressants tablets.

Is he considered vulnerable?

@PlanDeRaccordement
The sad thing is, these are the same people that somehow manage to not work for a week over Christmas and spend an extra £1000

Don't know about anyone else, but I take paid leave over Christmas, spend nowhere near £1,000, or even £500 and am still bordering on skint now. On the other hand we are lucky enough to have a couple of thousand in savings.

@IfYoureNotIntoYoga
Sometimes we have to look after ourselves and put ourselves first and in this case I will be doing so, and not taking advise from mumsnet users who are clearly in a lucky position to be able to live off SSP!

And if everyone takes that view there will be a lot more deaths. You are relying on the assumption that the majority won't do what you're doing - and if/when you do get it you'll have to rely on SSP anyway, potentially for weeks and will probably be cursing the person who didn't self-isolate.

Erm, vulnerable groups are not all over 75 with lovely homes paid off and pensions.

Plenty of vulnerable people like me, with an autoimmune disease that puts me in the 'at risk' category, who still have to go to work or not get paid.

I mean, to whomever said 'death is part of life', fucking callous. We're not all ready to pop off, some of us still have minor children, and I certainly don't plan to do so in service of people who want to walk their dogs!!

Here's the deal - don't leave it to vulnerable people to do the heavy lifting - lots of us can't afford it either.

I'd love to be self-isolating right now, but I'm on a temporary contract with about 2 days sick leave in total, and won't get paid to sit at home keeping myself safe because others don't want to change their dog walking schedules while they are ill.

Here's the deal - if you CAN isolate for 7 days with a new-to- you persistent cough OR fever, just do it!

And if you can't, I totally get it, I can't either, and let's just hope that enough of the people who can do the right thing and help flatten the curve.

But ffs, stop with the 'oh, it's only the at-risk who will get it, and they all can stay home with the telly on for months, and anyway, they should know they might die and just accept it'. No. Such ugly attitidues to the chronically unwell come out at these times.

As discussed before. Isolating the vulnerable doesnt work because they still need contact with the outside world. For example chemo treatments etc are ongoing. Equally they may need carers, have others that live with them or if they are entirely alone will run out of food and need shopping.

If high levels of the virus outside , then theres a high chance their carers etc will be carrying, the delivery driver, hospitals etc will be carrying (even if not symptomatic)

For them to be isolated and it to work you have to assume that those who have it arent still touching things or passing it on. There needs to be a low level around them

The vulnerable will need to isolate yes but they need the general number of cases in the enviroments around them to be low. This is likely to be around for months not weeks

Not forgetting they are incredibly vulnerable if those thst care for them suddenly cant visit.

I mean, to whomever said 'death is part of life', fucking callous.

Someone not facing any imminent danger of it, no doubt. This "I'm alright Jack" attitude that's coming out of all this makes me sick.

Should have added, obviously I would stay home with a fever/cough, whatever the loss of pay/job - just can't do the 'tuck myself away out of sight for 3 or 4 months and live on air with the rest of the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions' some people would obviously prefer as a solution so THEY don't need to change their behaviours according to their abilities.

I thought I had savings (prob enough for 2-3 mortgage payments) it was in an isa....that invested in stocks and shares... you can imagine what that's worth now.

Thoughts and prayers.