To ignore BJ's COBRA advice to send kids to school whilst Rep of Ireland has closed schools for 2 weeks

[100percentSunshine]

Just interested to know how others feel....

We are all expecting the exponential growth of the Covid 19 to take place in the next 1- 2 weeks.

I was gobsmacked by today's news that following the COBRA meeting, BJ has resolved to keep schools open.

Is anyone considering keeping their child/ren off school despite government briefing?

Yes @Harakeke, my glasses protect me from spit and saliva and other people’s “droplets”. There’s also a handy diy version made by the Chinese on youtube using a plain plastic sheet that helps.

In other news
“Even scientists who understand the strategy are anxious. “I do worry that making plans that assume such a large proportion of the population will become infected (and hopefully recovered and immune) may not be the very best that we can do,” said Martin Hibberd, professor of emerging infectious disease at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.”
Reports the guardian in an article questioning using the herd immunity for a pandemic.

@Nekoness

Well said

There is a confirmed case, a parent, at our large, Sixth Form College (I know only because I have been enquiring daily, the college community has not been informed as a matter of course).
Our son is asthmatic and my husband immunosuppressed and with a lung condition, so our son has remained at home this week. I feel, as those at risk, it’s our responsibility to take action and not simply rely on others.
College have been very supportive, his absence was authorised without question and work e-mailed by tutors. He has not fallen behind.

Its quite simply the fact the Tories are hoping a good proportion of the vulnerable, die from this, CV is a more effective social cleansing method than they could have devised themselves, theyve been trying hard for years with draconian benefit reforms, i think people don't actually realise, killing the most vulnerable, panic buying leaving the poorest to starve, offering no financial help to the public in the case of lock down, a broken NHS unable to save thousands, they are rubbing their hands with glee, its an elitists wet dream.

“In fact they're worse than nothing in many cases.”

In fact you’re making that up. All the articles say if you don’t wear them according to instructions, blah blah blah.

Yes, you've got me, I'm making it up.

theindependent.sg/covid-19-these-doctors-are-saying-face-masks-may-do-more-harm-than-good/

www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/01/29/should-you-get-a-face-mask-a-guide-to-coronavirus-face-protection/#6214122a30a5

I’ve taken my asthmatic kids out of school. We can’t rely on Boris to keep us safe.

I'm in the camp that mask do work. Living in HK everyone wears a mask they work if everyone is doing the same. An expert in coronavirus who went to wuhan with a group of delegates and also advised hk government on how to tackle it gave advice to wear them. And believes it is part of the success of why hk is able to control the virus. Here is his Q&A he did for a newspaper and towards the end he explains why he thinks they work. www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/exclusive-qa-with-hong-kong-microbiologist-yuen-kwok-yung-who-helped-confirm

I was listening to a professor on LBC today who made a lot of sense re masks.

The paper ones that we see about are pretty useless after a short period of time.

People in the Far East are more used to wearing them as it's more of a cultural norm.

People here are not so used to them so will find them uncomfortable and fidget with them- defeating the purpose.

They give a false sense of security.

And you really need to have your eyes covered too

Masks do bugger all because most people use the wrong type or don’t know how to use them in the first place (wearing too long, touching them etc). But they give people a sense of control over something that frightens them I guess.

Hong kong and Singapore are 2 places where the majority wear masks. They are alao the 2 places where the virus is now controlled. Mask wearing will have had a part to play in helping to curb spread. Especially If people are asymptomatic, mask wearing will have helped contain the virus wether be it through talking which can produce droplets or occasional coughs. It is also shown that people wearing glasses are of a slight advantage over people who dont from the virus getting into the eyes. Like I say if everyone is wearing them it will be more effective. Yes the virus can get into your eyes. But if everyone is wearing mask and they sneeze or cough the aerosol droplets is greatly contained theres really not that danger of it getting into the eyes. Unlike if some are wearing and some not. It really is either everyone wears it or it will not be beneficial at all.

spatchock we are well versed in hk on how to wear a mask.. alcohol rub the hands or wash them before wearing. Pinch the part over the bridge of the nose. Change every 4 hours of use or sooner if it gets wet or we take it off to eat food. Also we wash hand or alcohol rub hands when we take them off. Every adult and child is educated to do these things is very basic. Maybe over here it will not work because people haven't been taught. But where we are is literally is on every 10mins on tv on how to wash hands and how to wear mask.

DowntownAbby Fri 13-Mar-20 17:34:27

For all the deluded people who think they know better than Sir Patrick Vallance and Prof Chris Whitty, please point out which eminent virologists, epidemiologists and contagious disease experts around the world are criticising the U.K.'s plans?

The answer is there aren't any.

I rather think that the radically different approach of the rest of the world, with each country guided by eminent virologists and experts in epidemiology and one whose PM is a medical doctor, stands as a rebuke of the UK's plans.

The criticism is starting and it will turn to outrage. Copy and pasted my response from another thread.

Here’s some “Facebook” hysteria being reported by the Guardian
“The UK government’s coronavirus strategy and the plan to build up herd immunity is facing mounting growing criticism from the scientific community. More experts are questioning the failure to test more suspected cases and the decision to hold back on the more drastic social distancing measures introduced in many other countries.

Devi Sridhar, professor of global public health at Edinburgh University, says the UK strategy is “dangerous”.

Further “hysterical” experts comment

“Peter Drobac, a doctor in global health and infectious disease at Oxford University, says the “the UK is really out on a limb”.

Speaking to the BBC he added:

They waited too long to respond, and we really have to question the wisdom of the idea that we can time social distancing interventions just right to blunt the peak. They are taking an approach which puts them alone in the world. And I think it’s a gamble.”

A massively hysterical and apparent Facebook dumbass Brian Cox tweets his concerns that U.K. is refusing to test, except those who are being hospitalised.

Another person suffering from hysteria who dares question the current strategy was “Professor Anthony Costello, a former director at the World Health Organization, outlined his concerns about the herd immunity strategy in a Twitter thread.”

Unlike all other countries, the UK strategy aims to build herd immunity by allowing the steady spread of #COVID19. The government argue it will block a second peak in several months time. Here are EIGHT questions about this HERD IMMUNITY strategy:

1. Will it impair efforts to restrict the immediate epidemic, and cause more infections and deaths in the near term? Evidence suggests people shed virus early, and those without symptoms may cause substantial spread...this argues for policies against mass gatherings, for school closures, and for strict national and local measures for social distancing.

1. Will it weaken containment systems (testing, screening, radiography, isolation)? China quickly built a robust nation-wide system of mobilised communities/workers for identifying cases promptly, isolating contacts + treating vulnerable

1. Does coronavirus cause strong herd immunity or is it like flu where new strains emerge each year needing repeat vaccines? We have much to learn about Co-V immune responses. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jmv.25685

1. Doesn’t this herd immunity strategy conflict with WHO Policy? After the announcement of this being a pandemic, Dr Tedros, Director General WHO, said “The idea that countries should shift from containment to mitigation is wrong and dangerous.”

1. Shouldn’t we wait to see the China situation? They've contained the epidemic after 7 weeks of intense national effort. Will their strengthened systems not contain outbreaks quickly? What is their herd immunity? We don’t have serology available yet? It might be substantial.

1. Without an all-out national mobilisation plan for social distancing, are the UK government behavioural and nudge strategies really evidence-based to flatten the peak? Or simply based on models?

1. On the precautionary principle shouldn’t we go all-out to snuff this UK epidemic out, with national mobilisation at all levels, using all possible preventive measures (whether evidence is strong, uncertain or weak) and worry about herd immunity when we have more evidence?

1. Vaccines are a safer way to develop herd immunity, without the risks associated with the disease itself. Is it ethical to adopt a policy that threatens immediate casualties on the basis of an uncertain future benefit?

US news reporting on our insanity

“Bloomberg@business
LATEST: The U.K. government’s strategy to tackle the outbreak will need almost 40 million Britons to catch the disease to work, according to the country’s top scientific adviser.”

@DowntownAbby, best you go print out your articles and inform these ignorant people about how useless their face masks and eye protection is

@DowntownAbby, the US Surgeon general is hardly an independent unbiased source and the way the States have refused to allow individual states to test for the virus is downright criminal.

You obviously didn’t even read the second article because not only does it not back up your claims, it actually confirms what I wrote.

It's rekless to keep them at school. If it was flu at least we would know what it is. The low number of cases could be because they have been protected in all other countries. Over 10s had the same CFR as 20/ 30 y o

six children in hospitals with covid, depleted immune systems, pneumonia in four and 1 needed intensive care (all previously healthy)

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2003717?query=RP

As long as you keep them at home, no point if you are still taking them out, also its not nice for other people if you are taking your kids out because they are not in school.

I am from the UK but live in Ireland and I am really concerned at what I am seeing in the UK. The whole idea of social distancing is to flatten the curve and spread out the transmission of the disease so our health service can cope. Closing schools crèches etc is not what any parent wants and has a massive impact on the individual and the economy but it will save people’s lives. The NHS and the HSE over here were struggling to cope even before this. Reports from Italy are that many patients with other illnesses aren’t being treated anymore and doctors are choosing to give critical care to those who stand the best chance of recovery. The UK is doing nothing to contain this virus and allowing it to spread unchecked. It’s not only the elderly who are at risk of becoming critically ill with this although they are in the majority.
Over here all indoor gatherings over 100 people are banned, we are advised no play dates or parties for kids. After school activities all cancelled, sports, theatre, concerts all cancelled. People to work from home where possible. I am a HCP, all training cancelled, only Covid-19 going ahead and we must leave a seat in between us and next person. We are being advised against anything but non essential travel to Europe. According to our experts it’s not even certain that you can’t catch this again so how does herd immunity work if that’s the case? Testing has been expanded here to all respiratory illness presentations and contacting tracing/isolation of contacts still happening. There are special provisions for Covid-19 sick pay for public sector workers, not from usual sick days. The banks will also give 3 month mortgage holiday to those that need it. Our government would be taking these measures, which will have a massive impact on our economy unless it was absolutely necessary.

Gracey how long do you think the measures will last?

Ireland still has quite a small number of cases so realistically it could be many months

Do you think people will support them that long? And what happens when life starts to get back to normal?

I can see the schools being closed until September realistically although this is t being said. We have longer summer holidays from end of June. I have 3 primary school aged children and I am a nurse but thankfully my DH can (try to) get work done at home. 2 weeks will have little impact and this isn’t going away. We have several community transmissions that can’t be explained so it’s circulating here, as in the UK, in the community. I think our govt made the right call. There is a lot being said by politicians and media personalities that we are in this together and we all have to play our part to change slow this down. We know it can’t be stopped. When we are hearing ongoing reports from Italy I think that’s enough to remind people of what will happen here if we don’t make some sacrifices now.

Gracey and do you think the mood will stay that way?

We will have more serious restrictions in the UK - they have said as much.

One big thing I have a problem with - why did Leo speak when he did. Did he try and pressure the UK into doing the same by getting in there 1st - what time was it in USA when he spoke?

I do think the countries should be working closely together especially when they share Islands.

The UK / ROI should have talked together and decided the best way forward for the whole Island.

Gracey - Ireland's health service is not even as well equipped as Italy. It would be mayhem in Ireland if this took hold like in Italy. Not sure how our health service compares to the UK, but I've a feeling we're next in line to the UK (which is nothing to write home about).

The UK / ROI should have talked together and decided the best way forward for the whole Island.

Eh - that's assuming potato head would facilitate discussion. NI is a different country. Just because we're on the same land mass doesn't make us responsible for them! Should France and Germany collaborate?

Jeepers so you need to close the borders then.

And yes I do think we should have had a more joined up approach between countries.

I can see the borders being closed in all but name. NI won't be welcome in Ireland I wouldn't think, since they're not following same measures as Ireland. Equivalent to Germans allowed to freely transmit disease, being allowed to roam among Italy in lockdown. Not fair to the Irish to have the NI infect them.