How can the UK gov or anyone read this and not put the UK on lockdown?

[UnderReview]

The NHS won't. and shouldn't have to, cope with this...

Travel should have been stopped. Borders closed. People put in to lockdown.

ICU Doctor from Italy on current situation

@overnightangel I wish! Not everyone can afford to stock pile ☹️

Civil unrest will be a real issue that the authorities aren’t equipped to handle if they introduce lockdown too soon. It has to be done when people are ate sufficiently scared and they aren’t at the moment they’re still parroting “its just flu”. They need to see the real devastation around them affecting their own lives before they will adhere to such measures. Sad but true.

How can the UK gov or anyone read this and not put the UK on lockdown?

That's an easy one - the UK government doesn't take its health information from Twitter.

@WhateverHappenedToBathPearls what about from a doctor? #drjohncampbell

Yes Walrus there seems to be this strange idea that people will just do as they're told. They dont obey the speed limit or pick up dog's mess, why are they doing to inconvenience and disadvantage themselves economically without a murmur?

Forgive my ignorance but proposing everyone is told to WFH (presumably in computer based jobs) wouldnt there be a need for IT/broadband folks to be working to keep systems up and running? I work for a small business and I feel sure if we went into lockdown and couldnt work, (cant WFH) it would go bust.

@Stripeyfrog it's a good point.

To give some perspective, the government Dept I work is currently working round the clock to ensure our technical infrastructure would be able to cope with up to 60K remote workers on the network. That's worst case scenario, it will be fewer than that in reality. We are getting everything in place now, because we are an essential service in UK and need to be "business as usual" no matter what the conditions. So it is possible to achieve such scaleability to meet the specific demands of an organisation's workforce.

It won't require technical folk to necessarily be on-site to maintain systems 24/7, some tasks can be done remotely. It will need key people in station, but it can be done on a rotation basis so that a team of people share the heavy lifting in shifts.

Somebody on my FB feed is trying to work out how to get the mass spectrometer they work with in through the front door

Twonks in Whitehall cannot conceive of jobs that do not involve laptops
or parts of the country without broadband, 4g, Uber or Deliveroo

Could someone who wants a "lockdown " please let us know exactly what that would entail?

Lockdown worked for China
China is well versed in 'lockdown' they do it 24/7 with information about whats really going on there, we dont get the full picture, we just see a carefully managed facade

we cannot trust the information that is fed to us by an authoritarian regime...surely that is axiomatic?

Of course lots of people can't work from home. The point is the Government could be encouraging those who can to do so. And encouraging firms to let their employees work from home.

Lockdown in China basically means getting a bunch of heavies going round hammering bloody great big bolts through people's doors to trap them in their homes. Yeah it works for them. I expect it wouldn't go down too well in UK

Businesses should be taking accountability for really basic stuff like giving support to their drivers with those hand held tracker devices which must be the biggest virus traps ever. They shouldn't even hand them to customers to "sign here please". I received two deliveries yesterday and each time I said, please can you sign for me, and make sure your company gives you sanitiser to keep that device clean.

I'm not blaming the drivers, they need proactive support from their company to give them the necessary awareness. Companies give zero fucks about those people, and it's very unfair.

The protocol should be the driver delivers goods and signs on behalf of the customer so they are the only people to touch the hand held device (to protect themselves and the customer). No ifs or buts, this is an emergency and companies should think quickly about eliminating anything that puts people at risk and reducing the spread of CV.

It is not just Government, it should be companies/industry working together.

My senior managers simply are taking the - its just mild flu line. Businesses are run by people. If they have believed the propoganda that it is nothing to worry about, they will do nothing.
I have been saying all along that this is being minimised and that has an impact.

A friend who works in a hospital had her Sister laugh at her when she said she was worried about this virus.
Managers are not a separate breed of people.

These tweets by one of the twin tv doctor’s (he is an infectious disease specialist), Chris Van Tulleken gives reasons why he believes it is not a good strategy for a comprehensive shut down at this stage.

The tweets imply that containment will need to continue until a vaccine is developed and is not a short term measure. This is going to have a huge worldwide economic impact for years to come.

On the plus side though we may start to get closer to some envionmental targets.

I get why people are worried. I and most of the people I care about are in that upper age bracket and few of us in perfect health, but in light of the point made by other people I'm trying to imagine how we could make a lockdown with exceptions work.

All Emergency services of course would be exempt of course. (the military too)

All health workers including support staff in hospitals or elsewhere. That will include the receptionist at your GP and whoever cleans the place.

All workers involved in the production and supply of water, gas and electricity even down to the guy who checks for gas leaks and the ones digging up the road to do repairs.

Everyone involved in the production and supply of food. Shop staff, delivery drivers, wholesaler warehouse staff, all manufacturers of food including all farmers. We import food so the ships and docks must remain open.

Now make a list of all those above who have children and which schools they go to and which have relatives in care homes. Those schools and care homes must remain open for these people to work.

Add in all the public transport that the above people need and that must stay open too.

And now you have to take account of those teachers and public transport staff and where their kids go to school.

Oh wait. Not done yet. I assume people will be paying for food? They will need their salary/benefit cheques, so we have to keep open the banks and benefit offices and the admin people at the place you work.

Ah courts must go on and all the associated staff. They can't just stop.

And now we have to add to the list all the schools that their children go to and more care homes. It could even be 100% of schools by now.

I bet I forgot a lot of other essential people so feel free to extend the list.

I did! I forget rubbish collection.

Perhaps we should have stayed simple hunter gatherers

Agree with you. The time to reduce unnecessary movement of people is now. People in Italy are still going to work if impossible to work from home and shops are still open but the message is much stronger that people should avoid each other and keep the distance to avoid contagium. I read the entire post from this Italian Doctor. We shouldn't wait until we have 1000 cases to take serious action. Italy from 1000 to 9000 in a few days. Why wait?

@UYScuti
I have lived in China for 12 years ago. Feel free to ask me what really goes on, what measures were taken to combat the virus, what action is being taken now etc

Alternatively continue with your sinophobic comments...

I guess behavourists would argue if we try to implement measues now and they fail to contain the virus people will give up on the measues. Whereas if we wait until things are really severe people will get behind them more.

Either way the virus will not be contained. Models show that waiting a bit will reduce the peak somewhat because people will be more compliant.

@daisychain01
Another China expert?
I have lived in China for 12 years. I don’t think you have any idea how scared people are/were about this virus. While I cannot condone the heavy handed approach, we were all informed of the consequences of non compliance with quarantine regulations.

we were all informed of the consequences of non compliance with quarantine regulations

Such as...?

@Oakmaiden
Agree
China has a long way to go. Relaxing restrictions without a second spike is the new challenge.
Dd’s School is preparing to open, but there will be a phased return, starting with exam grades. Quarantine measures for those returning to China are strict: we have to be in the city for 14 days with daily health monitoring before dd is allowed back to school.