Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

I think the government said they're pledging £48 million to tackling Coronavirus? Italy have pledged £6.7 billion. I don't think our government are taking it seriously enough. I think it's time to stop fannying around with high speed rail links that will probably never come to fruition, like Boris's bridge, and use that money to support families who are struggling financially in the event of a lockdown, and businesses like nurseries.

I work from home. I pulled my son out of nursery last week. There are now 14 cases in my area. There were 20 in Italy 2 weeks ago. I'm lucky, in that I work from home, and can just about manage to get my work done with DS at home. I'm still happy to pay nursery fees, as this is my choice, but fully appreciate not everyone has this luxury. The government need to come up with something for those who can't, because it could cost lives in the end.

Just throwing it out there, what is the youngest feasible age for kids to be home alone (with regular phone check ins)? 8? What about with younger siblings?

Clearly the normal ‘rules’ or societal norms are going to need to flex here. Someone I know is claiming she won’t be able to work because she has 3 kids, 11, 9 and 5. Is there no way, with specific do/don’t instructions, they could be home alone at least some of the time??

It doesn't matter if some families go on holiday, or meet up at the park, or go to the zoo. The effect of normal school closure for school holidays is to reduce transmission of viruses. The effect has been seen in studies of chicken pox, swine flu etc (I've tried to attach a pic of graph of swine flu cases to show drop during school hols). During normal school holidays we don't restrict travel or meeting up, but it still reduces transmission. During school closures, children mix less, so there's less transmission.

I agree OP.
They need to add a few weeks to the Easter hols anyway

That’s quite dramatic kolo, thanks for sharing.

Also, special needs children often really struggle with school holidays as it is and many families of disabled children are plunged into crisis during school holidays due to their child not coping with the break in routine. Closing these schools could push many children and families beyond breaking point.

This is so true. But then at the same time, Special Needs schools will probably be even more susceptible to spreading because the children have even less concept of hygiene than in mainstream, plus they are possibly more likely to be vulnerable due to health conditions etc.

I feel like if Covid 19 entered the school I worked in, we would all have it within minutes!!!

No need. Children rarely catch it.

There is no way you can know that.

It's possible children don't get symptoms, it's also possible they could carry the disease and infect other a la Typhoid Mary.

@SnoozyLou I totally agree. Decide now - scrap HS2 and use the funds to support people and the economy through this.

@Youngatheart00 There is no minimum age, by law. The gov website goes by NSPCC guidelines - not leaving under 16 year olds overnight and not leaving 12 year olds home alone - but its subject to your reasonably expecting them to cope. Basically, if something should go wrong, on your head be it.

Businesses going bust will lead to deaths in other ways.

Thanks kolo that's exactly it. Closing schools wouldn't eliminate risk and no one claims it would. But it would significantly reduce it, and therefore cases.

You know, some people are dangerous idiots, they cling to crumbs of unsubstantiated comfort and then spread that misinformation everywhere they go. There a fucking menace.

I agree StealthPolarBear. Our government needs to come up with a really radical plan to protect businesses, and lots of other vulnerable people too. I hope they are up to the job. I wish we had a Clement Attlee rather than a Boris Johnson right now.

Clearly the normal ‘rules’ or societal norms are going to need to flex here

@Youngatheart00 Maybe people will become more community minded, and rather than children walking alone, other parents will walk with them.

@LynetteScavo that would be one positive.

@Sotiredofthislife

*Why aren't we advising the elderly and vulnerable to self isolate? Those at the greatest risk?

Because people wear lots of hats? I have a technically vulnerable child with asthma and T1D. If he self isolates, I will need to stay home too. I am a single parent and we rely on my income. I am also a teacher and should, according to many, be minding your children in class whilst you work.

It’s not that simple, is it?,*

But you are in the same boat if all the schools close aren't you?

*Namechangexyz1

Nice attack ad hominem. Very intelligent and considered.

But it's true, OP. Financially your family would cope much better than someone on zero hours / single parent. Fact.*

But where is all the childcare going to come from? If you haven't got any family around, who exactly is going to provide your childcare, whether or not you've got the money for it?

Clearly the normal ‘rules’ or societal norms are going to need to flex here. Someone I know is claiming she won’t be able to work because she has 3 kids, 11, 9 and 5. Is there no way, with specific do/don’t instructions, they could be home alone at least some of the time

Well I wouldn't. One sibling quarrel and it could all go horribly wrong. And I've yet to meet a 5 year old who obeys every instruction.

PaddyF0dder

Thank you for posting and for all that you do. The reason schools need to close is to help doctors like you. People need to actually watch the pictures of ICU in Italy now. Those doctors and nurses are working in an environment that is more like dealing with Ebola in Africa than a normal working hospital. They are on a war footing, essentially, in medical terms. They are having to make awful decisions like who gets the ventilators - who to allow to die and who to prioritise treatment for. It's not fair to put our doctors in this position and delay a couple of weeks until it gets much worse. When acting now would prevent such a huge peak of cases at one time.

Look at the graph in this article - the difference if you mitigate or not on the NHS is very, very clear (it has also been seen in other diseases like swine flu and in this case - the closures in China WORKED according to WHO). www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/how-deadly-coronavirus-toll/

Paddy Is there any scope for the NHS to support you with staggered shifts or reduced working hours for one or other parent (they may have to consider this if kids off school)? Are they talking about cancelling all elective surgery etc yet? They obviously have to reduce normal workload for staff somehow. Do you have any ideas about childcare solutions for doctors?

Maybe the state could pay some nannies to step up for doctors and nurses who have no family help, or ask SAHM to step up. I'm a SAHM (was looking for work but that's on hold during an epidemic) - there is one family at DDs school who has a nurse and doctor parents both working in hospitals and even though I don't know them well, when the school closures are announced I will offer to look after their kids. I know they have family nearby so they may not wish to take me up on it but I do plan to offer.

Maybe people will become more community minded,

Looking at the shelves at our local supermarket, where people were coming out with trollied filled with toilet rolls, I think it's more likely to go the other way.

@squiglet111. Me too, that's my exact symptoms, am never unwell and have had this for over a month.Did the NHS questionnaire as I haven't left country they say I cant have it and the chances are that I dont but what to do ? Considering taking next couple of days of but ever as a teacher we are under the same ridiculous pressure to always be at work.I also took 2 days off at the beginning of this illness, 2 lots of illness in a month,probably be told should have planned it better !!!

@Youngatheart00 you think an 11yo can be left responsible for a 9yo and 5yo as long as there are regular phone check-ins?? It's no surprise that the woman "claims" she can't work if her kids aren't at school

The gov won't close schools until maybe a week before Easter, our kids will be infected, come home for the holidays infect an area and then back to school.
I doubt it will do any good but if anyone feels schools should close now sign the petition.

Businesses could look at increasing facilities for home working - may involve significant outlay, but would enable the show to go on. For example, call centre work can be done at home with a laptop and the right software.

@welshfishwife I don’t know - that’s why I was throwing it out there. Clearly not ideal and a lot depends on the maturity of the children and whether they have additional needs