Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

But surely the retired grandparents are the ones who are in the most danger from catching this virus from their children or grandchildren?

I think the people who think missing some weeks or months is a HUGE problem probably haven’t ever lost someone they really love or don’t believe it would happen to them.

It will be yes, but if it is what has to happen, it will. People are kidding themselves if they think the government will open the schools because they have no childcare.

I can't see it happening because I don't think our health service could function if it did.

Several people have said this, but we all need to understand that the health service is very quickly going to stop functioning if we don't get the infection rate under control by any means possible. The economic consequences of out of control spreading disease are themselves catastrophic. There is no 'keep normal life going' option (e.g. by just isolating vulnerable people and everyone else carrying on) - one way or another, things are going to change fast.

Any measures we can take early on that slow down the spread of infection should be taken now. And bear in mind that if you don't hold that party after all, or go on that holiday, but don't get the money back, then you will have unselfishly taken a non-financial hit to reduce the epidemic, but without causing many economic consequences (because your payment has still gone out). You haven't lost any more money than you would have done anyway - just the experience of the event. People who are worried about other people's livelihoods might bear that in mind.

I’m a teacher in secondary school. I don’t think people realise what a hot bed for germs it is. 1000 students walking through the same corridors, using the same computers, chairs, desks, changing rooms etc. You can’t supervise them washing their hands like you would in a primary class. If someone in our school gets it, it will spread like wildfire.

And then what about the teachers? I understand that cases are mild for the youngsters but what if the teachers get it? A lot of us are in the risk categories. I’m then risking taking it home to my children, elderly parents and neighbours.

I do think closing the schools but keeping it open part time for y11 would help. Not everyone has children and we would have enough staff to come in and cover those lessons. There would be enough room to go in to a clean classroom after each lesson and we wouldn’t have the amount of children in the corridors etc. We could also bring back study leave. I would be more than happy to go in to work with less children there knowing that there is time to clean classrooms properly in between lessons.

As for the people saying they would be taking their children out to soft play etc then they are doing so at their own risk. Parents really need to start taking responsibility for their own children. Again this thread is showing that teachers are seen as childcare.

Think about primary schools for a moment. Whatever the universal credit advisors want you to believe, having primary aged children doesn’t lend itself easily to work, especially full time work.

You have events in the day (assemblies, Mother’s Day events, etc.)

You are expected to pick your child up if she’s unwell

Someone has to drop the child up and pick her up usually outside of school hours and not every school offers breakfast / after school clubs.

Yes re name this virus Boris!!

2017 stat google tells me
"There are now 4.9 million mothers with dependent children in work"

Plus presume some homes with kids are dad-only households but some have a carer at home or only teenagers so no worries if nurseries/childminders/schools/after school/childcare venues are closed ... still, millions of people having to stop work to mind their kids, potentially. I wonder how many of them are nurses/HCAs etc?

There was a nice discussion the other day about which job roles are "essential". The list was very very long. Maybe not enough to make public transport crowded, I guess, and the rest could still travel by car/bike/walk. But then who would pay for the mortgages of the people who couldn't be working in schools/childcare, durable goods retail or other 'non-essential' jobs.

I'm a teacher and I have severe asthma and borderline diabetes. I also have two children with high needs (both classed as disabilities but not physical disabilities - still they have high needs) that need me or my husband for them to function, eat, stay stable. I am worried about getting it because of my children.

Does anyone seriously think the government will say ‘some parents don’t have grandparents to take their children, so schools will have to remain open’?

No. But they will discuss how to minimise impact on the families for whom missing work would be a financial disaster. Much like the decision to pay sick pay from day 1, rather than day 4.

Before any widespread decisions on school closures are made, there must be contingency plans in place for the consequences.

Agree with that marie, although I don’t necessarily think there will be one coming!

"Then the child will take Boris to school and the whole thing will have been pointless".

OMG, I love this, can't stop laughing.

LynetteScavo
"Or we could just let the virus run its course".
Yeah why not.
In fact why bother treating vulnerable groups at all?
Maybe just cull them at 65?
I'm surprised this government has earmarked burial sites though, I thought putting bodies in a pit and pouring petrol on would be more their cost effective style.

I haven't seen an answer to this yet but I haven't read every response -

Why aren't we advising the elderly and vulnerable to self isolate? Those at the greatest risk?

Not sure how this would work for nurseries
If they cannot provide a service they cannot charge ? So without parental funding they will be unable to trade and the business may well go bust ?

This is pretty much my situation at the moment. We're trying to work out how we could withstand a month or more of no income. I can't see how I couldn't pay staff for that time - childcare workers aren't abundantly paid in the first place. They'd probably all get new jobs and we'd never be able to reopen.

@Serin - it wouldn't be my plan, but I think it's Boris'.

Story in the Sunday Times today about possible school closures and delaying GCSE and A Level exams:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-gcses-and-a-levels-may-be-delayed-kkmlg0kff

Business going bust versus parents and grand parents and vulnerable people dying.....

Nurseries tend to be private businesses so are different.

I haven’t seen anyone saying that they think the government will consider any of the impacts on vulnerable families, and not shut schools because of it, @lampsandrain. I certainly don’t think the government will have that on their minds, they’ll be thinking about the economy.
No one is “kidding themselves”. Just pointing out how incredibly hard this would be for lots of families, and also children who are abused at home.

@PaddyF0dder, yes I was joking. But I wouldn't be surprised if it actually happens.

I think the people who think missing some weeks or months is a HUGE problem probably haven’t ever lost someone they really love or don’t believe it would happen to them.

I think the economy crashing is a pretty HUGE problem.

Not many people could go without income for a week let alone a month or longer.
And many, many businesses would never recover

Business going bust versus parents and grand parents and vulnerable people dying

Businesses going bust means an awful lot of people don’t get paid, no money for rent/mortgage.

There simply has to be contingency plans in place.

To say business vs vulnerable people dying is reductive and ignores the complexities.

Many, many businesses are going to be impacted period. That's not avoidable now. The choices are about why they are impacted - because people are off and isolated, or because they are off and sick/caring for the sick. Customers staying away because they don't want to get sick, or staying away because they are.

Why aren't we advising the elderly and vulnerable to self isolate? Those at the greatest risk?

Because people wear lots of hats? I have a technically vulnerable child with asthma and T1D. If he self isolates, I will need to stay home too. I am a single parent and we rely on my income. I am also a teacher and should, according to many, be minding your children in class whilst you work.

It’s not that simple, is it?,