Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

@gamerwidow, watching and waiting didn't work for Italy.
They are now in complete lockdown, with 16 million people quarantined.

@LynetteScavo

I trust that you are joking.

Unless these people are all single parents then presumably couples will be deciding which parent stays at home based on money and social need - photographer from the local paper vs school teacher for example; the photographer could stay at home with no significant impact on society.

Serious lack of understanding here.

Unless these people are all single parents then presumably couples will be deciding which parent stays at home based on money and social need - photographer from the local paper vs school teacher for example; the photographer could stay at home with no significant impact on society

Incredibly naive.

Does anyone else not think that rather than waiting until it is too late it’s best to act now? In Some places they are on top of spread due to very strong measures. The attitude ‘it won’t happen to me’ seems to be rife here.

Davincitoad don't blame you at all. Presumably you're not allowed to nip put every hour to wash your hands either

I’m a teacher (reception). At our school (like most others I’d imagine) we are upping the level of hand washing - supervising it properly etc, but like others have said, little Isla comes out and instantly sticks her fingers in her nose or fiddles with the dirty tissue that we don’t know is in her pocket. We tried to clean some of the resources we have but seriously it would take a day or two to sterilise all the blocks/small world/pencils etc and obviously we are not being given that time. Early years is a hot bed of germs and there’s not a huge amount we can do about it. I know one teacher who has been told they need to disinfect the door handle 3 times a day - but that’s not going to do that much when - our of sight - little Johnny has just sneezed directly onto the plastic dinosaurs that will go onto be played with you half the class.
If schools do close I will offer to look after a few of my DSs classmates. I’d like target that offer to the ones who I know don’t have any back up support rather than the ones who might be easier to look after. It will be very tough for some people.

I do understand the argument for school closures. But would argue for the idea of partial closures. Year 11/13 still being able to go in for lessons - assuming the exams will still be running. Purely selfishly as my two year 11's will find it difficult to knuckle down by themselves.
But what happens to the boarding school with large numbers of overseas students? They have been advised not to return home to afflicted areas until after exams. If we become badly afflicted, which currently looks very probable, do they isolate the school?
UK is coming under a lot of criticism from Asian parents for it's handling of covid19.
For example HK closed their schools weeks ago and quarantined visitors more recently. They've managed to stop the rise in cases, as has Singapore. Hk had past experience with Sars to help it respond more quickly. UK doesn't and I think we're bring too reactive rather than proactive.

I work in an office with 200 people in an open plan layout, in my department alone there are 9 of us, 2 with asthma, 1 who is already self isolating with only 1 functioning lung, & 1 recovering from cancer. In my team we are all in our 50s and 60s so vulnerable

@Davincitoad, I'm not a teacher but totally understand your concern.
Kids are big transmitters of all bugs and viruses .
They have very little understanding of respiratory etiquette and are constantly putting fingers, pens etc in their mouths .
Hand washing techniques not great amongst kids either.
I'm telling mine to wash their hands, cough into their elbows etc, but I know they forget half the time .
As you said, kids have the ability to spread this virus very quickly.

@PaddyF0dder completely agree. It is going to happen, so do it now. It’s inevitable.
Start exploring childcare now, discuss plans & contingencies with relatives/friends, teach older kids how to help look after younger siblings, safety at home, food prep. Think about psychological impacts & make plans - can you get out for fresh air everyday (streets likely to be v quiet during closures), exercise & dance you can do at home, set up FT or Skype to stay in touch.
We have all been warned what is coming. Take some control, do your own research & make decisions that are in best interests of your family & community. You will better to have some semblance of control.
Later this year no one is going to give a flying fuck about school attendance, SATS, exams. We are going to have to pull together as a nation to support our most vulnerable groups - lobby your MP now, support food banks now, call for bank & utility payment waivers - and we need to be doing all of this, along with school closures, now.

@Davincitoad I’m a teacher too. It seems everyone else can be worried, and can by justified in their decisions to isolate themselves and their families, but we have to keep going, as far from being the educators if society, we are merely babysitters. I have young children and a mother who requires 24/7 care in a nursing home but, as always, my job seems to take priority over my family.

I am understanding of both sides of the argument. I worry about the impact on the economy but ultimately, as I am human, the desire is there to protect myself and my family.

I only voice my concerns here though. Tomorrow it will be business as usual - school run, day of teaching, and a parents evening - and those worries will be curtailed for another day!

I'm a bit concerned about NHS advice on this.

I've been very sick for over a months now with symptoms like corona. I haven't been abroad but am a secondary school teacher, have a son in primary school and a daughter in nursery. I think my daughter gave me this bug. She had a temperature for a day and a cough. Still has a cough too but is mostly fine now. Last two days I've had conjunctivitis too as well as cough etc. I decided to call 111 as I'm getting concerned that my illness isn't just the standard viral infection. NHS said I didn't have Corona as I haven't been abroad or been in contact with someone with Corona. But then how is there cases of people with Corona that didn't travel abroad? Surely the fact that I am in contact with hundreds of children daily means that there is a chance I could pick it up?! I've been going to school as usual most of this time, so if it turns out that I do have it... I'm potentially passing it to all kids.

I suppose NHS won't consider people that haven't travelled abroad because it could cause massive problems if they start testing people that have symptoms!

Even if I don't have it, how many people do and are being told they haven't got it!

This is probably why its spreading as much as it is as the NHS are in denial about how much it's probably spread!

Later this year no one is going to give a flying fuck about school attendance, SATS, exams.

I think this is the most likely outcome. I think anyone who is weighing up the pros and cons of staying at work/school vs home, or travelling or not, or worrying about income (as worrying as that can be) is rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

This is a virus that is neither reasonable nor open to bargaining, and it will affect us all in one way or another if it continues to spread.

And if it does continue to spread, life will change dramatically. There will be a new "normal" for a while. As soon as we accept and work with that (again, as unfair as that might be), then the sooner we can actually get practical with all of this, which will be the only way to deal with it.

Hmmm Parents like you work for the nhs. This would put more pressure on our already crumbling service. Nit a good idea.

I completely agree with you, for what it's worth OP.

Also we wouldn't be able to rely on grandparents to help with childcare sorry its a bad idea op.

How will each of us feel if we are wrong?

If the government try to keep the schools open and we end up with low fatalities, I will be very glad to have been wrong about the numbers involved.

If the government try to keep the schools open and we have high fatalities, I will be angry that those in charge, who had the same information as me, did not take action.

If the government close the schools and fatalities remain low, I will be relieved.

If the government close the schools and we have high fatalities, I will think that at least we did what we could and would imagine that we possibly averted something even worse.

We should all consider the possibility we are wrong.

We buy soap for our classroom, we have tried to order more in and hand gel but can’t get it. Gov needs to make sure schools can get a supply.

Closing schools would be in conjunction with a heavy recommendation for work places to be shut as well. Hence the extra measures suggested to be in place to protect small businesses etc. So I think the expectation is that adults will be around at home too.

Again, they think school holidays did break the spread of swine flu for posters saying it won’t work.

I see that it might be inevitable but I worry so much about the impact on vulnerable children and families.
As lots of PPs have said, and OP has too, it’s so hard to get childcare and some people haven’t even got grandparents to help (not that that is a great option). And so many children are only guaranteed a hot lunch and maybe breakfast too at school. Not to mention children who aren’t even safe at home due to abuse - at least at school they are safe and looked after.
I think it’s such a difficult one.

Does anyone seriously think the government will say ‘some parents don’t have grandparents to take their children, so schools will have to remain open’ ?

Sent too soon - it’s a difficult one because of the impact keeping them open can also have on vulnerable members of society. I feel it’s lose-lose in a way.

@lilgreen Same at my school too. The caretaker was saying Friday he has all these recommendations to follow but we are running low on soap, sanitiser and bleach and there is a 4-6 week wait with the suppliers. All very well reminding pupils of the need for good hygiene when the practices can not be put in place.

@lampsandrain no obviously no one thinks that. We’re just saying that it’s going to be a massive strain and nearly impossible for lots of parents.