To come out of retirement for Coronavirus

[AlexaAmbidextra]

Are you a retired nurse or doctor? I’m a retired nurse and there’s no way on God’s earth I’m coming out of retirement for this. Not because of the personal risk but the fact that I’m just done with working. Should I be more unselfish?

Well, I've lived abroad. So what? I don't expect anyone to risk their lives for me or change my poo as a volunteer . It's not 1939 anymore. Blitz spirit was a made up construct of the government to boost morale, it was illegal to make negative statements about the war in public, organised crime was rife, so was corruption, looters roamed around robbing even corpses after bombing.

Should this become a National Emergency it should be all hands to the pumps!

Suit yourself, go for it!

Though i did suggest students "could" be bribed to come and help, it is a bit rich to expect the younger generation to help out, be it housing, pensions, tuition fees or now brexit, the older generation have screwed over younger people.

I quit nursing as it’s a crap job, never going back. Imagine doing that for free. I can totally imagine the government imploring nurses to #bekind and work for free. Or as someone else said, get paid and get stiffed by HRMC.

Even the VADs in the world wars got paid. £20 a year in WWI. A staff nurse was on £40 a year. Can you imagine anybody doing that now for say, £2000 a year?

the older generation have screwed over younger people

The generation of women they want to return to work has been screwed over, with years of their state pension stolen from them with virtually no notice. It’s not the older generation that’s screwed over younger people, it’s successive governments. It’s grossly unfair to condemn an entire generation because they were born at an advantageous time. A generation that’s merrily handing out house deposits and providing free child care.

You definitely shouldn't be more unselfish OP. A number of things the government has said make no sense - this is one. 'Older people get it more seriously' and then 'we'll get all the retiree doctors and nurses back!' - I mean it really makes no sense at all. It would make more sense to get trainee doctors and nurses in from universities etc, since they're in the least affected demographic.

The other thing they keep saying is 'try not to touch your face'. I feel this is also really unhelpful advice. Most people touch their face quite a lot unconsciously. I've got glasses that sometimes slip down my nose and I've been noticing how often I push them up. It's a lot. It's like telling people not to scratch an itch, just really quite unhelpful and unrealistic. Particularly when applied to children. I have enough problems even getting my 3yr old to wash her hands.

I was asked to go back to my last job, which I loved, last year due to staff shortages- decided against it because of the pain of re-registering. If they can sort that out, I wouldn't mind supporting 111 but not doing face to face with the public again. Had enough of being abused and taken for a moron - I have earned my pension the hard way.

@tud41 I agree with you. Which is why I didn't vote for them either. But Labour haven't been in charge for the past 10 years so they aren't culpable at the moment. This is all on the Tories, but they are only there because people voted for them. So having an understaffed NHS is what people chose. Maybe they thought that there were more pressing concerns. I happen to find being alive the most pressing, but each to their own.

Oh I get that it is down to the Torres why they are understaffed and I agree if you don’t want to come out of retirement then you should not be judged on that if the reason is just generally that you don’t want to. However if the motive for no going back to help is because you wouldn’t want to help out a Tory leader but would in fact help of if labour were in charge, that then becomes a selfish issue.

People will alsways vote based on the current affairs at the time. I.e this one was brexit and as much as they will say it wasn’t it was a brexit election and nothing else. Obviously people were not expecting this and maybe other parties would be able to handle it better, would be no different than if labour got in and then world war 3 started. There is no way I would want Corbyn in charge during a world war, telling our soldiers to use their words and not weapons and replacing all ammunition with love hearts etc....

My point being voters can’t be blamed saying this is what they voted for when in all truth no one knew it would happen. Until such time as there is some evidence that the government have massively failed in this I will be fully supportive of them. Again I didn’t vote labour or conservative and even looking back I don’t think Swinson would have been very good in this situation and I did vote for her haha.

However if the motive for no going back to help is because you wouldn’t want to help out a Tory leader but would in fact help of if labour were in charge, that then becomes a selfish issue

I don't think anyone has remotely said that though. But if someone didn't want to go back for that reason, it's up to them. The bottom line is that people can refuse to put their life on the line when they are no longer contracted to do so, for any reason they like. You may find it selfish, but they may have good reasons to feel the way they do that you know nothing about. I would be more likely to go back if a) it wasn't risking mine and my family's life and b) the NHS had replaced staff who left to fill the gaps, instead of now relying on goodwill. That's a crap and dangerous health policy.

My point being voters can’t be blamed saying this is what they voted for when in all truth no one knew it would happen

In truth, they did know what would happen. Not with coronavirus specifically, but Drs and nurses have been saying we are due a pandemic and are woefully understaffed for years. It has been on the news so many times about the NHS not being able to cope if we had a major disease outbreak for YEARS. And that we are due a major disease outbreak.

Anyone who didn't know didn't keep up with current affairs at all, or didn't believe what people have been saying. Repeatedly.

If people wanted to prioritise Brexit that's totally up to them. But people's decisions re voting have consequences. We are, sadly, possibly about to see those consequences played out. While I am desperately sad for the people affected by this, they can't say they weren't warned.

Oh totally get that it’s up to them, the OP had asked whether it was selfish and in those circumstances it would be. That being said I have been selfish in my life befor for many reasons. Like you say it’s completely up to them and they shouldn’t care what people think.

You are right in the second point about knowing the NHS was under pressure. I guess what I mean there is we can’t blame Boris himself. By all means blame the party. I would have liked to have seen if Boris could have kept his word about pledging x amount of money into the NHS but sadly it looks like we will never know if he could have improved it. This virus has come at a bad time for him but it is his predecessors that need to be blamed for the NHS crisis not Boris himself.

Several point really as a nurse,60 this year,2 years to retirement but after 40 years service will still need to work part time until 67 to make ends meet.
Someone said allied professionals such as physics and occupational therapists could step into more nursing roles.These professionals will be needed asthe physics are vital helping patients with acute chest infections.This will hit the elderly and many will need more help than before getting on their feet and back home safely so you need the OTs.(tip of the iceburg of all they actually do).
There are transferable skills in nursing but it is more specialised now as patients get better outcomes.In this case ITU,Respiratory nurses,Infection control .
Nurses from other areas with some training input could enhance their skills and be available in other areas if needed.
Eg if non emergency operations are cancelled Theatre staff and surgical nurses could,with training be moved.
So why isn't this happening now,while we have time.Dufficult with staff stretched to the limit but as soon as Covid.looks as if it is escalating elective ops are reduced and trading starts we stand a chance.We don't even have a list of motivated people who would be willing to move/train so that we are ready in the stating blocks.
Using students,especially nurses as the drop out rate is already high.If we want nurses and drs of the future then making them with limited skills and less support than normal take the brunt of this crisis because they are most likely to physically survive the virus us no help if we break them in the process.
Bringing Drs and Nurses out if retirement.Even to if we ignore the fact that they are a vunerable group reregisering for either group that no longer meet revalidation criteria ,even if the Government want to fudge it, these are professions whose members who won't dodge professional criteria that protect their patients.Any that do are not people I would want to treat me.
If the virus hits hard enough to need volunteers for the Hospital's,then many nurses(mostly women)will be busy helping family,friends,children,neighbours through it too.This will effect non retorted nurses too.
Many retired nurses do as I will do and go back part time.I will need the money but also need to work less hours as physically it's getting harder and the damage done to my joints and back after 40years makes it more difficult.
Any staff who retired before 60 took a financial hit,they left for a reason so are very unlikely unretire(and again many work part-time out of healthcare).
So many of the general public underestimate what all HCPs do,we are not interchangable and we are not immune to this virus.I'll be working but if I care for infected patients will worry about taking it home.I suspect I will be less protected but more compelled to help families in my street if it comes to it.
What worries me most is that responsible retired Drs & Nurses will not be the ones volunteering,are those that do the ones we really want?

@tud41 I don't think I even mentioned Boris Johnson. Few have

@TheHagOnTheHill Well said

YANBU. Too risky at your age, not to mention the practicalities. Am aghast that a government would even suggest this, let alone the sheer gall at them expecting people to say yes.

Ignore the nuts berating you. Most of them are the ones planning 18 months self isolation while selfishly expecting others to service their shopping needs and look after their sick relatives. Apparently some of us are cannon fodder and some of us are special.

I get all the personal / political / pension / too old / been shafted over reasons that have been cited on this thread, I totally do. Problem is viruses don’t do they? Few people on this earth are true ‘islands’...most people have family and friends that may if the shit hits the fan need care, or mature knowledge or experience to teach those who can. I think its really sad that in a desperate situation like this that the overwhelming collective response is a cold hardening. It won’t help. The success of any society to fight disease is aided by support or cooperation.

In Italy they’ve brought forward the nursing exam finals to help cope in the hospitals. 😘

Hang on, I though all the staff in the NHS were selflessly giving up the opportunity to earn millions in other countries/occupations due to wanting to do the right thing and care for people in the UK?? All those posts from doctors saying they could earn double/treble abroad but feel they're needed here. All those posts from people saying they could earn hundreds of thousands in a different career, but being true to their calling to care for people instead.

Seems it's not true after all given the nastiness and spite of ex NHS workers on this thread who are mostly living well on decent pensions after retiring earlier than most other people.

‘Nastiness and spite’ ?

FWIW, I’m not retired or living off a fat NHS pension. I left my career in nursing in my 40’s due to the extreme stress and pressure of the job. My professional registration was coming up for renewal at a time when I was struggling massively (both mentally and physically) and my specialist service was going to the commissioners (again). I left nursing to save my sanity. I loved my job and worked hard at it but it was destroying me. It is not nastiness or spite that is keeping me from returning.

Thing is, we were true to our calling, worked hard and then got to retire. Our health is vulnerable and it isn't our fault we weren't replaced. It's so selfish to expect people with a high chance of dying to go back and take that risk. If people feel strongly that action needs to be taken, I suggest people go and train as nurses or doctors. And if YOU don't want to do that, then you have no right to tell us that we should.

Oh, and I also took early retirement on health grounds, having had my physical and mental health decimated by picking up more and more work as fewer and fewer staff were replaced. Having to choose between a career you love and your own health is horrible. Asking us to now go back is massively taking the piss.

most people have family and friends that may if the shit hits the fan need care, or mature knowledge or experience And most of us would look after them in the community and help our loved ones.

Maybe think about WHY there is a collective hardening? No, it won't help solve the problem. But the problem isn't ours to solve.

Nastiness and spite?!

Really? REALLY?

There was no nastiness and spite, just many former HCP's explaining why they wouldn't go back. We've given enough to the health service. Also, I didn't retire! I left for my health and my sanity, I left after being bullied out of my post by incompetent management. I can't actually retire and claim my pension for another 23 years.

I will not expose myself to a high viral load when I'm in a high risk group. I will not go back to a job that broke me both physically and mentally. I will not put my vulnerable family members at an increased risk to look after yours.

If you feel that strongly you can put on a pair of gloves and volunteer yourself.

Seems it's not true after all given the nastiness and spite of ex NHS workers on this thread who are mostly living well on decent pensions after retiring earlier than most other people.

Kazzyhoward. The only nastiness and spite here is coming from you. Not only am I not living on a fat pension but neither did I retire early. I was sixty-five when I retired and only then having nursed my father at home for five months while he died from cancer. I consider that having worked for almost fifty years, with no breaks to have children or for any other reason, quite frankly I’ve done my bit for society. I wonder how many years of full-time work you have under your belt?

Health care workers don't leave early because they can live on their pensions, M at can't and go and work in other areas when they leave.There have been lots of threads about nurses leaving and the reasons not one has said they would be ok as they could live off their pensions.
Many nurse won't have full pensions anyway due to taking career breaks to have children(child care and shifts being a major reason).
I don't hear nastiness and spite,I hear a lot of weariness that some people don't listen or begin to understand what nursing is today and how much harder it is when there are not enough of us.