To come out of retirement for Coronavirus

[AlexaAmbidextra]

Are you a retired nurse or doctor? I’m a retired nurse and there’s no way on God’s earth I’m coming out of retirement for this. Not because of the personal risk but the fact that I’m just done with working. Should I be more unselfish?

@SirChing...my DD19 is a Year 1 medical student in South Yorkshire - already lots of chronic respiratory disease there. I accept shes fit and strong and may get asked to pull her sleeves up and help, thats okay. But the one thing I can imagine people like her will lack is the experience and know-how that people with your experience could bring to this situation. It doesn’t need to be that you are thrusted front line, but offering support and knowledge to younger people who wouldn’t have a clue would be invaluable in this crisis.
I am very saddened when I hear my DD sometimes refer to ‘boomers’ with a roll of the eyes. The emotional distance between generations is huge, the perception that we’ve screwed up the planet, all voted for Brexit and are sitting back with final salary pensions whilst the young ones pick up the pieces....that kind of thing. I think they need our support not abandoning.

@Bakedbrie are you a medic yourself? I suspect not. If you were within healthcare you would know that it would be totally inappropriate for retired nurses to give supervision to trainee doctors. Sure nurses help them out, but it's a different job. It would be dangerous and unfair to your DD, the patient and the nurse for her to be supervised by someone not qualified to do so.

My experience is in mental health: specifically adult acute wards. What part of that has ANYTHING to do with respiratory illness?

To be quite honest, your comments reveal that you understandably don't know enough about how healthcare is organised. That's fine. But don't then stand in judgement over those who have the experience to know that what you propose is unworkable and dangerous.

Your DD will not get much help or support from the nursing team anyway if she makes any boomer comments to them. I suggest she keeps her thoughts to herself. Funnily enough, you repeating them doesn't make me want to help her out.

As a midwife I supervise medical students.....I also keep a close eye on the SHOs at times.

And frequently they’ll ask me for advice, what test should I order, what’s the drug dose, is that a cervix, what’s a raised doppler. That’s the SHOs btw, not the students! Junior doctors are in a training role and it’s perfectly normal for anyone to help someone less experienced. We’re trying to break down defined job roles/hierarchical structures in the nhs and foster multi disciplinary team work.

Obviously some things can only be taught by another dr. I’m not teaching the career SHOs how to do sections.

I am very saddened when I hear my DD sometimes refer to ‘boomers’ with a roll of the eyes.

I’m saddened too. Perhaps you can point out to your delightful daughter that those female boomers fought so that her generation could enjoy equal opportunities, equal pay and maternity rights. That those of the boomer generation stood shoulder to shoulder at Greenham Common. How horrifying that someone training in a caring profession should demonstrate such lazy, unintelligent prejudice towards an entire sector of society.

I agree Alexa, such a horrible attitude. The planet one is humorous though, I am pretty sure many more people had milk delivered in glass bottles, used reusable nappies, had fewer cars, and didn't buy multiple single wear outfits back then than now.

@SirChing...stop deliberating misplacing a remark to justify. Of course she wouldn’t call a nurse or older doctor a boomer! Grow up.

It might also be worth pointing out to her that without us she wouldn’t be able to get any financial services without a male signature and she would have to pretend to be married to access contraception. This inter generational warfare is dreadful.

Nope not a bit selfish!!! You are a high risk group and I think it’s selfish to expect you to go back!!!!

By the way ...the person upthread who called my DD lazy - unbelievable. You dont know who she is, youve never walked a day in her life! I was talking about cross generational conflicts. The term boomer is used broadly by many as is snowflake as is gen x. - with all the generalisations right or wrong. To pounce on someone’s kid and call them lazy when you dont even know them is just pathetic.

You walked into it @Bakedbrie. Don’t tell us about her appalling attitude if you don’t expect us to comment on it. Nobody called her lazy, it was a reference to her prejudice. Which frankly stinks.

To be fair the poster wasn't calling your DD lazy, but her prejudices. There is a stark difference, neither particularly nice, but there we go.

I think I had at some point on this thread tried to suggest that some posters experience and expertise would be valued at a time of national crisis. But Ive totally changed my view. Please do stay in retirement. I’m sure matters will resolve themselves and the NHS and humankind will just muddle its way through without the need for anyone to return against their wishes. Happy days! 🙄

As a midwife I supervise medical students.....I also keep a close eye on the SHOs at times

I agree in as much as they are working in your area of expertise. What the PP suggested though was that experienced nurses supervise SHOs but implied that their specialism wasn't relevant. I have helped loads of SHOs on MH wards, but I couldn't begin to know how to help in respiratory matters. That would be disastrous.

Of course she wouldn’t call a nurse or older doctor a boomer! Grow up

I suggest then that you don't mention her prejudices to people if you don't expect them to comment. Attitudes like she has DO come across in professional environments even if they aren't explicitly stated. I have seen it before in other Junior Doctors. They often think we aren't aware. We are. It does impact how well thought of they are and how integrated into the team they become. I suggest that with such prejudices, it is your daughter who needs to grow up.

BBC are running the "moral maze" on R4 the host said "many people think it is ridiculous trying to save people who will die shortly anyway"

Thats a valid POV, why should should someone come out of retirement and risk getting very ill themselves to save folk in their 70s 80s and beyond?

Bakedbrie.
I did not call your daughter lazy. I said this.

How horrifying that someone training in a caring profession should demonstrate such lazy, unintelligent prejudice towards an entire sector of society.

It was you who came on here to inform us that your daughter referred to ‘boomers’. I maintain that this term denotes lazy and unintelligent prejudice. Having told us of her viewpoint you are now foaming at the mouth in indignation that some of us should take exception to her somewhat unpleasant attitude. Just because the term boomer is used by many that doesn’t make it any less unpleasant nor does it excuse an individual who misguidedly thinks it’s a smart thing to say.

I didn’t ‘pounce on someone’s kid’ as you say. You introduced her into the debate and gave an example of her thinking. No, I have never walked a day in her life but I have walked almost fifty years as a nurse. If I were you I would suggest to her that she has a rapid rethink of her attitude or her career won’t be one in which she enjoys the support of her colleagues.

Have the government said whether this ‘coming back out of retirement’ to fight Coronavirus will be paid or volunteering??

@AlexaAmbidextra well said!

If I hadn't already decided not to go back, I just say that the attitude of those who don't work in the NHS thinking that we are mean, unsupportive, nasty, cold etc, would definitely have made my mind up.

I can't believe the audacity of people with no medical training telling us what we SHOULD be doing and exactly what support we could provide (in their world where a mental health nurse can deal with respiratory illnesses ).

The entitlement of many posters on this thread has been astounding. Someone telling us that "my DD thinks this about Boomers" then taking issue when we say "well she will be as popular as a sputum sample sandwich" is just mind blowingly lacking in self awareness (and actually makes me understand perhaps why the DD feels as she does having witnessed the entitlement in close quarters).

I heard rumours of legislation to "conscript" doctors and nurses, current and retired... surely this is utter rubbish

Of course it is. Conscription for pensioners? Even this government isn’t that bonkers.

If you didn’t want to hear the views of anyone outside of the NHS why on earth didnt you type that onto the thread title?!

BBC today reporting nursing shortage of 40K

Thats a valid POV, why should should someone come out of retirement and risk getting very ill themselves to save folk in their 70s 80s and beyond?

Because it's not just the old at risk. The young and middle aged are too if they have health conditions, eg diabetes, cancer, etc. These are peoples' children, parents of young children, valuable workers, etc.

I think we're in dangerous territory if we start talking about some lives being more 'valuable' than others.

I think we're in dangerous territory if we start talking about some lives being more 'valuable' than others

Normally yes BUT its possible that very soon, Dr's are going to have to decide who gets what treatment if any.
Hospitals are currently reporting 12hr waits in AE without any CV patients
Should an 85yo in heart failure get that respirator or the 40yo with 2 young children ?

Nationwide we've got 25% the number of hospital beds Germany has, similar lack of medical staff from Nurses to Paramedics... 43k nurses short.

So they'll be no one to take the elderly (or anyone else) to the hospital that is full to the brim.